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Hold Em Steady (For the Mods, this is about Northampton v Oldham)

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« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2018, 21:08:37 pm »

Captain Silly complaining about silliness, who’d have thunk it?

Steady Clarity steady!
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« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2018, 21:49:06 pm »

Ball retention is in no way a sign of a good or bad team. Leicester won the prem averaging about 40% possession. We had plenty of possession in the early games this season but conceded regularly and rarely scored ourselves.

Playing the ball early will inevitably result in the loss of possession more often than not; same as playing 'percentage balls'. We are doing both at the moment far more than we were under Austin. So we are bound to lose possession more frequently. The good news though is that when we do, the team is organised and goes into 'defensive mode' as a unit instantly.

Based on the 6 games so far (not including Oxford), we've won 3, drawn 2, lost 1. The one we lost was a narrow defeat at the team 2nd in the league. Im struggling to see any noticeable ways where we can improve things at the moment, Kieth is using his squad very well, he's finding far more solutions within the current group of players that any fan telling the truth (!) will admit to thinking of before he was appointed.

You've also got to factor in that we have completely changed our style of play, so its going to take time before we see the early balls and the % balls find their targets more frequently.

My only current concern is that a mini run has occurred each time we've appointed a new manager post Wilder. That said, this one is now more impressive than the previous ones. I stated when he was appointed that Id wait 10 games in before seeing how the players are performing and once the 'honeymoon period' has come to an end. After 6/7 games, its so far so good. I am *hopeful*!

Good post, and nice to see that someone else on here understands what's going on on the pitch.
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« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2018, 21:52:57 pm »

After these comments and the previous diatribe on Cornell , I suspect you watch the games from Pizza Hut ....

Such a comment is a sure sign of a lost debate. Which parts of my post do you feel are incorrect? My comments on Cornell are no diatribe, but facts as I see them. What parts do you disagree with if you think I am wrong?



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« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2018, 22:04:51 pm »

I suspect it's the old.. telling a warped tale over and over again until people believe its true.  No mention or blame at all given to the shocking defending within cm of the ball or the very poor attempt by Buchanan to stop the cross in the first place. (other than that I thought Buchanan had a good game).



I don't rate Buchanan as I think he's been past his best for a long time and feel he along with Cornell is our weakest link. I agree though that he had a fairly decent game on Saturday and has improved overall since Curle arrived.

However you have made the mistake of thinking that Buchanan's failure to close down enough for the cross mitigates Cornell's not coming to claim the cross or any of the multiple other crosses that were made into the box in the second half. It doesn't.

Cornell simply doesn't come to claim enough crosses made into the box, so much so that it's almost a rarity when it happens. If there's an attacker or defender in between him and the ball as it comes over almost with out fail he won't come for it.

Stating all this is as obvious as stating that Hoskins has no end product as far as I'm concerned.
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« Reply #144 on: October 29, 2018, 22:10:48 pm »

With the Cornell thing, is it better to have a keeper that makes fantastic saves but drops the occasional clanger. Or is it better to have a keeper that hasnt the agility to stop the shots he has no right to save, but never makes a mistake? By the way if the answer is both then he will be playing for Madrid or Bayern or someone. Just saying.

Cornell has dropped more clangers this season than he has made 'fantastic saves'. Many on here make the mistake of assuming that no other keepers at this level would have also made a handful of 'fantastic' saves, because they would have and most likely have done for their respective clubs so far this season. However I doubt very much very many (if any) have made any near the amount of clangers Cornell has made this season.
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« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2018, 22:23:52 pm »

Cornell has dropped more clangers this season than he has made 'fantastic saves'. Many on here make the mistake of assuming that no other keepers at this level would have also made a handful of 'fantastic' saves, because they would have and most likely have done for their respective clubs so far this season. However I doubt very much very many (if any) have made any near the amount of clangers Cornell has made this season.


The trouble is Clarence you have this curious fixation on Cornell and his inadequacies almost inventing situation(s) to support your argument. As suggested by one Moderator ' give the guy' a break. Seems reasonable advice to me.
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« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2018, 22:46:21 pm »

Captain Silly complaining about silliness, who’d have thunk it?

So you agree that they look silly. They must be sitting hoping he does make the odd clanger (as all keepers do). Sad.
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« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2018, 22:50:23 pm »

The trouble is Clarence you have this curious fixation on Cornell and his inadequacies almost inventing situation(s) to support your argument. As suggested by one Moderator ' give the guy' a break. Seems reasonable advice to me.

Being a Moderator doesn't and shouldn't have any influence on someone's opinion when we are talking football, it doesn't need to be mentioned.  
We are down the pub talking over a pint.  Unless it gets violent, illegal, not in the spirit of the board (as detailed below) and/or repetitive the Moderator aspect doesn't get an influence.
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« Reply #148 on: October 29, 2018, 23:03:04 pm »




However you have made the mistake of thinking that Buchanan's failure to close down enough for the cross mitigates Cornell's not coming to claim the cross or any of the multiple other crosses that were made into the box in the second half. It doesn't.




You have made the mistake of thinking Cornell is ten feet tall. He would have needed to be to claim that cross. It was twenty or so feet high in the air as it passed him.

Turnball, O'Tool, Hoskins and Odofinn all had the chance to put it in the stand but failed.
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« Reply #149 on: October 29, 2018, 23:11:15 pm »

He was 'tackling' towards the west stand so yeah, good view

Obviously not if you saw it as way too high  - I know most of us wear the claret tinted specs and a few do the opposite to play devils advocate but it was clear live if you were close and clear on the highlights - it was late, a foul, no intent to hurt, and foot close to the ground - probably a yellow card because of the speed he caught his man but very few apart from you and the ref would deem it a red.
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« Reply #150 on: October 29, 2018, 23:28:51 pm »

Obviously not if you saw it as way too high  - I know most of us wear the claret tinted specs and a few do the opposite to play devils advocate but it was clear live if you were close and clear on the highlights - it was late, a foul, no intent to hurt, and foot close to the ground - probably a yellow card because of the speed he caught his man but very few apart from you and the ref would deem it a red.
Add me to those who thought it was a bad challenge that probably warranted a red. His angle was all wrong. I'm in the North as well!
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« Reply #151 on: October 29, 2018, 23:55:41 pm »

Cornell was not at fault for that goal. Three defenders had the chance to clear it and didn't.

But between them it was virtually the only thing they did wrong. Great defensive performance from everyone on Saturday. A lack of mental strength was my big bugbear with these players, but they've shown they have it under Curle at the moment. The big test for them now is to show it across a sustained period of time, rather than making me fear it's another new manager bounce.
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« Reply #152 on: October 30, 2018, 00:12:53 am »

The trouble is Clarence you have this curious fixation on Cornell and his inadequacies almost inventing situation(s) to support your argument. As suggested by one Moderator ' give the guy' a break. Seems reasonable advice to me.

Fixation on Cornell? Not far back on this thread I was debating whether our ball retention has been good enough recently. I didn't even mention Cornell in my initial reports on the match! However it's difficult not to enter debate regarding him when so many on this board can't seem to see any problem with his keeping, IMO it is beyond bizarre, but it makes for good debate!  Wink

As to 'making up situations', what do you mean? Like his dreadful spill of the ball from the easiest of takes against MK (only pure luck prevented a goal), or his ridiculous rush out against FGR which more or less gifted them the goal? Or his other dreadful decision to come out v Morecambe, plus his terrible positioning after he had done so handing their attacker the easiest of tap-ins from outside the box? Or the long soft shot at his near post against Port Vale which he should never have been beaten by? Or his kick-out which hit the attacker against Mansfield costing a goal? Or his awful keeping for 2 of the goals in the same game (he should have stopped 2 more of there goals without a doubt)? Or his failure to stop either of the shots v Carlisle? (see game-thread for debate on these two). Or like his continued, virtual inability to come and claim crosses, exemplified by the many he failed to come and claim on Saturday?

How many goals have been conceded as a direct result of his poor goalkeeping? 6, 7? 8? How many goals have we scored this season as a result of the oppositions poor goalkeeping? 1, 2? None? These stats tell their own story.

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« Reply #153 on: October 30, 2018, 06:57:54 am »

Fixation on Cornell? Not far back on this thread I was debating whether our ball retention has been good enough recently. I didn't even mention Cornell in my initial reports on the match! However it's difficult not to enter debate regarding him when so many on this board can't seem to see any problem with his keeping, IMO it is beyond bizarre, but it makes for good debate!  Wink

As to 'making up situations', what do you mean? Like his dreadful spill of the ball from the easiest of takes against MK (only pure luck prevented a goal), or his ridiculous rush out against FGR which more or less gifted them the goal? Or his other dreadful decision to come out v Morecambe, plus his terrible positioning after he had done so handing their attacker the easiest of tap-ins from outside the box? Or the long soft shot at his near post against Port Vale which he should never have been beaten by? Or his kick-out which hit the attacker against Mansfield costing a goal? Or his awful keeping for 2 of the goals in the same game (he should have stopped 2 more of there goals without a doubt)? Or his failure to stop either of the shots v Carlisle? (see game-thread for debate on these two). Or like his continued, virtual inability to come and claim crosses, exemplified by the many he failed to come and claim on Saturday?

How many goals have been conceded as a direct result of his poor goalkeeping? 6, 7? 8? How many goals have we scored this season as a result of the oppositions poor goalkeeping? 1, 2? None? These stats tell their own story.



Confirmed, you haven't a clue about the art of goalkeeping. Well done.
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« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2018, 10:54:44 am »

The problem with the Cornell debate is the same problem that the whole country (/continent/world) seems to have with any debate these days! We take views that are solidly on one extreme end of the spectrum and refuse to concede an inch. In this case - 'Cornell is great and saves several certain goals that other L2 goalkeepers wouldn't', or 'Cornell is crap, has never successfully claimed a cross and drops several clangers that no other 'keeper would be guilty of'.

I'm talking about the loudest (most repetitive) voices on here, by the way. There are a few posts hidden among the endless repetition of the same arguments, from the same posters, which give a balanced view.

For me, Cornell is an average league 2 goalkeeper. Maybe slightly below average. His shot-stopping is very good, but then he wouldn't be a professional goalkeeper if it wasn't (see Chris Dunn). However, he's one of those 'keepers who makes you nervous as a supporter (and presumably as a defender) every time the ball comes into the six yard box. He just hasn't mastered the skill of commanding of his area.

I do think he's improved since Curle came in, though, so there's hope!
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« Reply #155 on: October 30, 2018, 12:14:29 pm »


For me, Cornell is an average league 2 goalkeeper. Maybe slightly below average. His shot-stopping is very good, but then he wouldn't be a professional goalkeeper if it wasn't (see Chris Dunn). However, he's one of those 'keepers who makes you nervous as a supporter (and presumably as a defender) every time the ball comes into the six yard box. He just hasn't mastered the skill of commanding of his area.


I agree re this.
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« Reply #156 on: October 30, 2018, 12:48:08 pm »

The problem with the Cornell debate is the same problem that the whole country (/continent/world) seems to have with any debate these days! We take views that are solidly on one extreme end of the spectrum and refuse to concede an inch. In this case - 'Cornell is great and saves several certain goals that other L2 goalkeepers wouldn't', or 'Cornell is crap, has never successfully claimed a cross and drops several clangers that no other 'keeper would be guilty of'.

I'm talking about the loudest (most repetitive) voices on here, by the way. There are a few posts hidden among the endless repetition of the same arguments, from the same posters, which give a balanced view.

For me, Cornell is an average league 2 goalkeeper. Maybe slightly below average. His shot-stopping is very good, but then he wouldn't be a professional goalkeeper if it wasn't (see Chris Dunn). However, he's one of those 'keepers who makes you nervous as a supporter (and presumably as a defender) every time the ball comes into the six yard box. He just hasn't mastered the skill of commanding of his area.

I do think he's improved since Curle came in, though, so there's hope!

Pretty much where Im at...

Up until this season, I considered him a big liability; but he's no Sherwood, Dunn, Turley, Simon Brown (!). He's also no Woodman, Smith (at this level), Welch or Bunn. He's basically somewhere in between.

It is a position we need to strengthen in, thats for certain. Based on him being the best from the (4?) current keepers we have. How much of a priority that is, 'park the bus on it' until January. We've conceded 4 goals in the 6 league games since Kieth took over, nothing wrong with that.
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« Reply #157 on: October 30, 2018, 14:38:57 pm »

Fixation on Cornell? Not far back on this thread I was debating whether our ball retention has been good enough recently. I didn't even mention Cornell in my initial reports on the match! However it's difficult not to enter debate regarding him when so many on this board can't seem to see any problem with his keeping, IMO it is beyond bizarre, but it makes for good debate!  Wink

As to 'making up situations', what do you mean? Like his dreadful spill of the ball from the easiest of takes against MK (only pure luck prevented a goal), or his ridiculous rush out against FGR which more or less gifted them the goal? Or his other dreadful decision to come out v Morecambe, plus his terrible positioning after he had done so handing their attacker the easiest of tap-ins from outside the box? Or the long soft shot at his near post against Port Vale which he should never have been beaten by? Or his kick-out which hit the attacker against Mansfield costing a goal? Or his awful keeping for 2 of the goals in the same game (he should have stopped 2 more of there goals without a doubt)? Or his failure to stop either of the shots v Carlisle? (see game-thread for debate on these two). Or like his continued, virtual inability to come and claim crosses, exemplified by the many he failed to come and claim on Saturday?

How many goals have been conceded as a direct result of his poor goalkeeping? 6, 7? 8? How many goals have we scored this season as a result of the oppositions poor goalkeeping? 1, 2? None? These stats tell their own story.


Have you ever played the game at all ?
It’s like you once read a book on football without really understanding it .
So many of your comments are way off the mark but because you write a hundred words of spin per paragraph , it seems to bore people into submission .
It’s loke listening to a politician that never gets interrupted
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« Reply #158 on: October 30, 2018, 15:43:32 pm »

You have made the mistake of thinking Cornell is ten feet tall. He would have needed to be to claim that cross. It was twenty or so feet high in the air as it passed him.

Turnball, O'Tool, Hoskins and Odofinn all had the chance to put it in the stand but failed.

And you've managed to rename a few of the players  Grin
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« Reply #159 on: October 30, 2018, 16:12:31 pm »

And you've managed to rename a few of the players  Grin

Yes, good ennit  Grin
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