guest3338
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I get the mean median mode bit, and the categorizing of players into midfielders, defenders, strikers etc, but he still wins less than half of his contested headers (if the data is correct). For every central defender he challenges he might also challenge a pip squeak fullback or a Daniel Powell? And if he wins less than he loses then should he be challenging for it in the first place? If I was winning less than i was losing when there's only two outcomes (against players in the same league), I wouldnt want any bragging about how good I was no matter who I was contesting it with. But I get the theory, thanks.
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claretparrot
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I get the mean median mode bit, and the categorizing of players into midfielders, defenders, strikers etc, but he still wins less than half of his contested headers (if the data is correct). For every central defender he challenges he might also challenge a pip squeak fullback or a Daniel Powell? And if he wins less than he loses then should he be challenging for it in the first place? If I was winning less than i was losing when there's only two outcomes (against players in the same league), I wouldnt want any bragging about how good I was no matter who I was contesting it with. But I get the theory, thanks.
Look at it this way. If every player was the same height and just as good at winning headers, you'd expect them all to win 50%. Assume the average CM is less skilled at winning headers than the average defender and the average striker, and you start to see how 47% could be quite good.
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Coolcat
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Look at it this way. If every player was the same height and just as good at winning headers, you'd expect them all to win 50%.
Assume the average CM is less skilled at winning headers than the average defender and the average striker, and you start to see how 47% could be quite good.
Yeah but only s*** players head balls...decent ones kick them! So 47%...hmmm, over to CJ!
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Manwork04
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Defender next - I PRESUME
Or a Keeper 😉
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Rule Britannia
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everbrite
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My least favorite cobblers player in the 28 years I have supported them.
Astonishing comment when if he had stayed it might have gained us 3/4 points (includes MK game). Would not be too surprised if JB resigned him.
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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everbrite
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Look at it this way. If every player was the same height and just as good at winning headers, you'd expect them all to win 50%.
Assume the average CM is less skilled at winning headers than the average defender and the average striker, and you start to see how 47% could be quite good.
I think CP is right or at the very least convincing in his interpretation of LJ figures. At a guess you might have missed the point which is comparing Lewis % of headers against defenders. Another thing what LJ figures suggest is that Lewis is brave and determined in midfield? If that is the case it might justify JB’s enthusiasm in getting Lewis on board. Right character and all that!
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 09:19:57 am by everbrite »
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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lordjord
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I get the mean median mode bit, and the categorizing of players into midfielders, defenders, strikers etc, but he still wins less than half of his contested headers (if the data is correct). For every central defender he challenges he might also challenge a pip squeak fullback or a Daniel Powell? And if he wins less than he loses then should he be challenging for it in the first place? If I was winning less than i was losing when there's only two outcomes (against players in the same league), I wouldnt want any bragging about how good I was no matter who I was contesting it with. But I get the theory, thanks.
I think you would be surprised at how dominant the CB's are in comparison (especially in L2), plenty in the 60+/70+. Think of the other CM's we have has in the past, a number are quite small in stature and dont really attempt to win the ball, just try and jump and use their body to put off the opponent.. If they managed to win 50% in the air I would be delighted, they cant bail out of it because they are unlikely to win it. But as the numbers go up you are involved in its obviously more impressive to maintain a better win rate. Understand it does not seem like a positive at all though, context is always important which I did not really add. Just checked Daniel Powell also, challenged for just over 2 a game and barely won 20%, guess that's why he's a winger and not a forward! Its also true though that data can be construed in a number of ways, he could turn out to be awful haha. As I say I am not expecting world beater, but solid squad option who can get us the odd goal, yes. But the proof will be in the pudding, no better way to find out than watching him in the flesh!
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 09:24:04 am by lordjord »
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everbrite
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I think you would be surprised at how dominant the CB's are in comparison (especially in L2), plenty in the 60+/70+. Think of the other CM's we have on our books, McWilliams, Pollock, Sowerby. If they managed to win 50% in the air I would be delighted, they cant bail out of it because they are unlikely to win it. But as the numbers go up you are involved in its obviously more impressive to maintain a better win rate.
Understand it does not seem like a positive at all though, context is always important which I did not really add. Just checked Daniel Powell also, challenged for just over 2 a game and barely won 20%, guess that's why he's a winger and not a forward!
Which is a good example of a player lacking the determination to win (any) header. Some on here criticised Powell that for a player with an imposing physique he lacked determination.
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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everbrite
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He’s got the hardest working agent in football
Heard whispers on Innis of Charlton signing. Fee involved. Any comment?
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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BackOfTheNet
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You'd have to think that a lot of the time midfielders are challenging for aerial balls that they want to flick on or where it's coming over their heads. Defenders are generally just heading balls away that are coming straight at them.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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Clarity
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Or a Keeper 😉
I Presume was a clue.... that’s the annoying thing to do on this thread
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 10:41:36 am by Clarity »
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Welly Cobb
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Heard whispers on Innis of Charlton signing. Fee involved. Any comment?
I remember watching him when we played Charlton and feeling gutted that we'd lost out of him. Not sure why'd they let him go, other than he seems to be coming out of a long term injury.
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guest3338
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I think you would be surprised at how dominant the CB's are in comparison (especially in L2), plenty in the 60+/70+. Think of the other CM's we have has in the past, a number are quite small in stature and dont really attempt to win the ball, just try and jump and use their body to put off the opponent.. If they managed to win 50% in the air I would be delighted, they cant bail out of it because they are unlikely to win it. But as the numbers go up you are involved in its obviously more impressive to maintain a better win rate.
Understand it does not seem like a positive at all though, context is always important which I did not really add. Just checked Daniel Powell also, challenged for just over 2 a game and barely won 20%, guess that's why he's a winger and not a forward!
Its also true though that data can be construed in a number of ways, he could turn out to be awful haha. As I say I am not expecting world beater, but solid squad option who can get us the odd goal, yes. But the proof will be in the pudding, no better way to find out than watching him in the flesh!
So I suppose in the case of central midfielders, if you could isolate those duels contested only against another CM, you should arrive at a more convincing stat for how effective they actually are in comparison to each other. Might provide someone with a job?
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lordjord
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So I suppose in the case of central midfielders, if you could isolate those duels contested only against another CM, you should arrive at a more convincing stat for how effective they actually are in comparison to each other. Might provide someone with a job?
Absolutely! I imagine their is a data source out there somewhere. But I have neither the time nor do I care enough to do so haha.
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guest3338
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Absolutely! I imagine their is a data source out there somewhere. But I have neither the time nor do I care enough to do so haha.
Marouane Felaine was quite good in the air, wonder what his stats looked like? Any chance our guy is our league two equivalent?!
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lordjord
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Marouane Felaine was quite good in the air, wonder what his stats looked like? Any chance our guy is our league two equivalent?!
I think its safe to say he is not the league two equivalent haha
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Tabasco Kid
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Who gives a fukc about stats? I had a decade of filling in time sheets, being followed around by time and motion men, and having my wages cut.
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Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
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BackOfTheNet
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Who gives a fukc about stats? I had a decade of filling in time sheets, being followed around by time and motion men, and having my wages cut.
Apparently the time and motion people did!
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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Coolcat
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Astonishing comment when if he had stayed it might have gained us 3/4 points (includes MK game). Would not be too surprised if JB resigned him.
Astonishing, given the number of shockers we've had between the sticks over the years...never mind outfield duds...oh and more recently, a certain Mr Mitchell!
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