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KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.

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Author Topic: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.  (Read 5563 times)
GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2021, 16:30:22 pm »

That went well the last time !  Smiley

Didn't it just!  Sad
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« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2021, 19:42:17 pm »

The Trust will not engage with this forum, even though it has a sizeable membership. The Hotel End website was mentioned at most board meetings and was considered as anti Trust. By no means is that an attack on the individual members of the board. But has been seen as so, due to certain sensitivities within that committee.

The Trust has limped along for some time now. Whilst it has a group of genuinely well intended people, the lions share of any activity is confined to just a few people. That is not necessarily by design, it more down to the fact that a lot of the committee are not all that motivated. Those that do put in the main share of work have become very protective of their stance. IMO this has lead to a narrowing of the arteries, of what was once a very dynamic group.
One of biggest nails in the coffin had to be the ill fated meeting at the Moat House, regarding fan ownership. What should have been a rallying call, turned out to be a dirge. Whilst the speakers were nice people, the whole thing was a series grey and vanilla speeches. It was very poorly attended. But for those who were there, it offered no inspiration. It cried out for someone from the Trust to issue a call to arms.

The Trust has lost what supporters are about. We donít respond to multiple page reports, or thought provoking speculation. We respond to charismatic, energetic individuals, whoís hearts are on their sleeves when it comes to our club. That is what our Trust was found on. For that model to survive as an integral part of the supporters psyche. It has to incorporate dynamism and passion. Without that, it will exist as it does, barely afloat and on life support.
Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     Huh?
   
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« Reply #122 on: May 03, 2021, 20:51:19 pm »

Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     Huh?
   

I'd heard that most of those thought that they had gate crashed a wedding ceremony/reception?   Grin Wink
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« Reply #123 on: May 03, 2021, 22:12:15 pm »

I'd heard that most of those thought that they had gate crashed a wedding ceremony/reception?   Grin Wink
Thereís a hierarchy at those doís. Cherished loved ones and friends on the top table. Close friends and relatives just in front, acquaintances and afterthoughts at the back (room fillers as they are known in the wedding game). The only problem with being one of them is you get last crack at the wedding list and the cheap stuffs gone. Using that analogy you donít want to be one they brought the chairs in for?
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« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2021, 07:35:44 am »

Just to clear up a couple of points for you Nigel. It must be getting on for 5 YEARS since you attended a board meeting, so to say that "The Hotel End" is considered anti Trust and that  "a lot of the committee are not all that motivated" is quite a statement to make when you have no evidence to back it up, apart from your own 5 year old views.
             Further more you say that the meeting at the Moat House was "poorly attended" when in fact the room was full and extra chairs were bought in for people to sit in the adjoining room.
     Huh?
   

I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.

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« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2021, 08:39:16 am »

I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.
You attended a forum with NBC a couple of years ago but NO board meetings for nearly 5 years, and that is according to the secretary. No one has claimed that there as been a presence from the Trust board on here.
    Why not exclude a few more groups from the meeting and, eventually, you could get it down to "poorly attended" I sat in the foyer because there was no room in the main room. 
Again you are having a dig and using things from YEARS AGO to back it up
     You acknowledge that the only way forward is if all the fans are together ,yet you take EVERY opportunity to discourage people from joining the only fan group we have by bringing up perceived faults from years ago. 
     We could get a new democratic fans group, which everyone joins, instead of the Trust but it would only be copying something which already exists so why not encourage people to join the existing group and re mould it to what the majority wants to do ?
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« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2021, 08:51:00 am »

I have attended several meetings since then Roger. In the most recent one I attended, this site was mentioned on three occasions. But readily admit that is still TWO years ago. However, there is still no presence from the Trust board on here, and has not been for some years.

The meeting at the Moat House, excluding guests and Trust board members attracted I would say optimistically 100 + I would say sub 2% of the support. The meeting was held in the two side rooms, usually reserved for small meetings. There was few chairs outside occupied by late arrivals, whilst some spaces remained in the main room. Neither of the two conference rooms were used or booked.



It is clear now you hold a grudge and you are more concerned with bitching at the Trust than progressing the club.
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« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2021, 09:28:25 am »

You attended a forum with NBC a couple of years ago but NO board meetings for nearly 5 years, and that is according to the secretary. No one has claimed that there as been a presence from the Trust board on here.
    Why not exclude a few more groups from the meeting and, eventually, you could get it down to "poorly attended" I sat in the foyer because there was no room in the main room. 
Again you are having a dig and using things from YEARS AGO to back it up
     You acknowledge that the only way forward is if all the fans are together ,yet you take EVERY opportunity to discourage people from joining the only fan group we have by bringing up perceived faults from years ago. 
     We could get a new democratic fans group, which everyone joins, instead of the Trust but it would only be copying something which already exists so why not encourage people to join the existing group and re mould it to what the majority wants to do ?

Roger... I also attended another meeting not a million miles from that date. I sat right behind John, and spoke a few times, all friendly exchanges. I was opposite Kev, Drilling to my right. But that is irrelevant. And a distraction from my point.

As for my information on the Trust being from years ago, letís put that to the test. Name one thing that has changed in the Trust boards perspective since I was on the board? At that time they were all for fan ownership. In fact it was muted back when Ant Collett was chair. So being as that is the only issue I have, whatís your point??

As for me ďacknowledging that the only way forward is if all the fans are togetherĒ. Damn right I do Roger. Yet not one single Trust member has been offered the chance to vote. If you are assuming that ďall the fans togetherĒ means agreeing with the Trust board, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. That absolutely can and will happen, if a more inclusive, and informative model gets implemented.

Iíd love a world where we all hold hands and skip to Sixfields, then oust the meanies who run the club. But unlike some, I am realistic about the shape of modern football and modern business. The Trust needs a presence on all forums, they need to be media savvy and in the limelight. Whether you take that as a criticism or not, I am only stating the obvious. No amount of meetings held in a poorly lit working menís clubs, will attract new blood. Nobody wants the wheel tappers and shunters club anymore. They want a vibrant, media savvy, fast turning supporters group, with a modern colourful website, updated regularly, that is in constant touch with its supporters. If thatís the sort of language that you think destroys the Trust, then Iím sorry. Maybe you're right, itís my fault that the Trust has failed to increase its membership for goodness knows how many years now 🙄🙄🙄

Just try to see what I am saying mate. It is a few quick fixes. The Trust board is not the Trust. The Trust should be an organic representation of the supporters. For that to happen, the board has to wake up and engage with it members and the wider support base.

If thatís anti Trust, I donít know what to say.

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« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2021, 09:39:32 am »

Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?
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« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2021, 09:54:59 am »

GPC...you are the most 'visible' member of the Trust that has crossed my path and a well known poster on this board, which must be the most active fans forum we have access to.

As a common long standing fan with no links (or no aspirations to have links) with the Supporters Trust, it isn't very clear what the Trust actually is in terms of its remit or where it sits.
I would have thought it should be closely linked and affiliated to the running of the club at a board level, or be totally independent to challenge if/when required.
It should have a strong, visible and ideally charismatic figurehead who the common fan would know, at least by name and sight. There should be regular publications that would reach the vast majority of the fanbase, especially with the outreach of social media, mailing lists etc. The Trust sticky links for example rarely get updated on here, a site that sees a lot of traffic.
I totally appreciate that anyone involved with the Trust will be working on a voluntary basis, have commitments outside of their role and get little thanks for the work they do. It could be that we just haven't got the supporters we need to coordinate and maintain a high performing Trust. There must be some very intelligent people on it.
As an example, during the Cardoza 'scandal' it should have been the central focal point for high profile protests but all I remember was a muted 'We Want Answers' campaign, again possibly down to general apathy and lack of coordination. I can vaguely remember something 'getting by' the Trust in terms of the loan.

So it's far from direct criticism and hats off to those that do try and dedicate time and energy to the Trust, as well as raise funds. However, it doesn't feel like an effective forum at the moment. It could be an 'old boys club' that doesn't really welcome 'outsiders' and needs a total overhaul I really don't know?
  
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« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2021, 10:30:15 am »

Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?

This would depend heavily on what we as fans are trying to achieve, I would suggest the first stage would be to see where the fans are at in terms of wanting KT out, and that is as many fans as can be reached not just trust members, I don't know if anyone at the trust has a list of fans emails but that would be a good starting point.

I feel we can critisize the trust all we want, however, the trust can't do anything if we as fans don't tell them what we want from the club so until the trust go out and get the fans opinions it is just guesswork what the actual support want.

I think you will find it falls into a few categories.

1. Those who are happy with the status quo
2. Those who want KT out for another owner who has money and can take the club forward
3. Those who want more fan involvement, probably along the German 50+1 model route.

This is a long path and cannot happen overnight but it does need the majority of the supporter base on board, which means canvassing all supporters social media groups.

Personally I don't think KT is doing anything for this club to take us forward, yes I was thankful when he came in but apart from an extra toilet door we have very little to show for his tenure so I would like to see him gone, but how that is achieved I am not sure.

I would also be prepared to put a £1000 in if it comes to that being needed, I haven't got that sort of cash laying around but if it was a fully costed proposal alongside a majority shareholder I would find the money from somewhere, I think we have reached the stage where a change is needed.
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« Reply #131 on: May 04, 2021, 10:39:09 am »

It is clear now you hold a grudge and you are more concerned with bitching at the Trust than progressing the club.

How ironic for you to come out with such comments.
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« Reply #132 on: May 04, 2021, 10:39:18 am »

Some interesting views and in general, a good debate...

Personally, I am no longer on the Trust Board. I only make that point because I've been referenced a couple of times.

My views, for what its worth are thus. That the Trust should put its weight behind a community project and see how it plays out. There are a lot of passionate and intelligent people involved in it, and I certainly wouldn't question their motivation. I started to question mine for a whole number of reasons, but the key one was lack of time due to a change of personal circumstances, work commitments etc. I also, quite frankly, just want to 'selfishly' enjoy watching football again and take the politics out of it all.

I think there is some momentum going towards more official fan involvement/control within football generally, that said I also think we are a long way off any significant changes within ownership models etc (across the board). In an ideal world Id love all 92 clubs (and below those as well) to have a 51/49 German style model, but whether or not it is possible to adapt that model in isolated cases is open to debate. I think if it was to be possible, the first thing that needs to happen is for the bulk of the fan base to be united. How that is achieved is very difficult because we all know there are so many factions within our support. We have three travel groups, all of which have varying views (generalising here) on each other, and varying official/non official tie ins with the club itself. You've then got 'off shoots' like the podcast chaps, you've got lone rangers on social media that gather either degrees of support or the total opposite!  Somehow, these groups and 'social influencers' need to be brought together. I don't think there's anyone at the minute who is standing forward and being that person to create that 'all in it together' type 'movement' so until that happens we will continue to argue about it. That all said, its great to see some healthy debate for once!!

MC's post really hit it home for me, personally. Could of written the bulk of it myself.

Its a big challenge but the good thing is that timing wise, for once we have plenty of it. We now know which division we are going to be in next season, we all kind of accept that budget wise we are unable at this point in time to give league1 a decent go. Covid or no covid, its all relative. I don't blame the owners for that, I don't blame KC, JB, anyone in particular. Its a collective issue. The club needs to generate more £, it needs better training facilities etc. But ultimately the whole East Stand debacle needs to be put aside and the club needs to start being seen purely as a football club and not with 'redevelopment' as a prime distraction. Its been the case now for at least 15 years, and quite frankly (like the majority of us I guess) Im utterly bored of it.

Im sure that in the days and weeks ahead, things will move fairly rapidly in all areas. My view is that the owners are not stupid, they would have picked up on the general feeling of the fan base and will adapt accordingly. They have to, at the end of the day.

I enjoy working with the staff at the football club with my sponsorship stuff. I am also looking forward to going back to games hopefully in August. I will also continue to support the Trust in a non official capacity. I wont though get involved in a neg fest on here or on twitter/facebook etc, I simply cannot see the point. It needs positive change and neither the football club or the fan base should wait for each other. Lead it now is what Id like to see!


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« Reply #133 on: May 04, 2021, 10:56:39 am »

Great post Battery although I think the Trust board and any fans who want to voice an opinion, should decide what their chosen outcome is and present it to the fans (like they did before) but it needs to be done more in stages so it builds momentum rather than one big meeting, then nothing.

Afterall they are the ones who will drive any fans change forward. It's ok to do a vote now but with so much apathy around I'm not sure you would get any change. There will always be the majority who will sit back and let everyone else do the work and take the risks. Hence why we are where we are today.

As said the campaign needs to be much more on social media and needs to be harder hitting. Perhaps instead of "we want answers" how about "we have questions" and those questions needs to shed light on KT's failures / lack of care for the club. ie: When are you going to pay back our £10k? What happened to the £6m it was reported that the Chinese paid and lost for a share of NTFC?  Is completing the East stand the same or thereabouts from DC plans?  How many broken windows do you have in your home ? Why have the broken windows at Sixfields not been repaired ?  What message do you think this sends to players, agents, fans, staff and football people in general?  Bit longwinded but sure you get the point.

Are you actually Cardoza in disguise ?  

Are you part of a clandestine group of foreign football owners whose aim to take as much OUT of English football as possible, whilst appearing to be a friendly, rather clueless operator like DSI Buckles?  Grin Grin Grin

If the club had good people trying to drive the club forward I am pretty sure other investors would be attracted - just like Wycombe. Be interesting to see how they get on next season.

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« Reply #134 on: May 04, 2021, 11:06:52 am »

Not sure of all the issues and ramifications but I think the best course of action would be that:

The club, stadium and immediate operating land is given back (£1) debt free (in terms of investors & their related parties) to the people of Northampton

In exchange the other piece of land is given to KT to develop with a % clawback back to NTFC / NBC to enable the completing of the East Stand and some.

KT can also develop his other land he grabbed off the nose of NBC.

The clubs core needs ripping out and starting again with a focus on getting value. Speak with other small clubs and ask how they survive and prosper, talk with bigger clubs on how they grow, attract and keep support. Speak with managers and coaches on the things that make players improve etc.

Investment needs to go into infrastructure not players agents or loan players etc. We need to invest in assets that will repay not shiny new cars that lose money.

WE NEED A FOOTBALL CLUB TO BE PROUD OF. THE TOWN & COUNTY WANTS AND NEEDS IT TOO. ..... Lets GO
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« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2021, 11:47:03 am »

The "Trust" is about as effective in bringing change as a group of green haired lesbians chained to fence. Not their fault but the club is now in a worse position than when they moved into Sixfields 25 years ago.

Unfortunately barring a few, most Cobblers fans (as wonderful as they are) are seen from the outside as frankly a bit odd, beer bellies and tank tops with egg down their front, and that's just the ladies. A successful meeting would be deemed as six pints of real ale and a game of crib.

What I'm getting at is for all the endless words on here and well meaning "Trust" meetings it is never going to engage the general public of the Town, the last time the Town was really behind the football club was during the Atkins period and if a superb stand had emerged after the first Wembley visit some inertia may have been gained but DC saw to that and finished the club for a generation.

I'm sorry but serious change for NTFC will never happen unless something incredibly bold happens that excites the potential customer base and in that I mean people without egg down their tops who have money to spend. I'm just a supporter but friends of mine have sponsored the club, the facilities for corporate guests are diabolical, they would never have invited other business clients along for risk of being ashamed, that's a huge issue.

The whole Sixfields area has massive potential and why DC/KT got involved but it appears to have been managed by the primate section of London Zoo. The council would be better off spending £500k in commissioning Norman Foster than chasing the skint DC in court. A bold iconic landmark development that creates media attention would recoup their losses quicker than wasting time in court. Melly has quite rightly pointed out getting funding for projects is harder than ever, for bang average projects yes, but for something more remarkable, a breathtaking new development it can draw a different level of interest.

I'm a proud Northamptonian but if you return to the town after years away it's shocking, you realise just how backward and risk averse the planners and the council really are so that will never happen, more Travelodge than Marriott.

Titanic just deck the chairs the on rearrange.

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« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2021, 12:19:49 pm »

The "Trust" is about as effective in bringing change as a group of green haired lesbians chained to fence. Not their fault but the club is now in a worse position than when they moved into Sixfields 25 years ago.

Unfortunately barring a few, most Cobblers fans (as wonderful as they are) are seen from the outside as frankly a bit odd, beer bellies and tank tops with egg down their front, and that's just the ladies. A successful meeting would be deemed as six pints of real ale and a game of crib.

What I'm getting at is for all the endless words on here and well meaning "Trust" meetings it is never going to engage the general public of the Town, the last time the Town was really behind the football club was during the Atkins period and if a superb stand had emerged after the first Wembley visit some inertia may have been gained but DC saw to that and finished the club for a generation.

I'm sorry but serious change for NTFC will never happen unless something incredibly bold happens that excites the potential customer base and in that I mean people without egg down their tops who have money to spend. I'm just a supporter but friends of mine have sponsored the club, the facilities for corporate guests are diabolical, they would never have invited other business clients along for risk of being ashamed, that's a huge issue.

The whole Sixfields area has massive potential and why DC/KT got involved but it appears to have been managed by the primate section of London Zoo. The council would be better off spending £500k in commissioning Norman Foster than chasing the skint DC in court. A bold iconic landmark development that creates media attention would recoup their losses quicker than wasting time in court. Melly has quite rightly pointed out getting funding for projects is harder than ever, for bang average projects yes, but for something more remarkable, a breathtaking new development it can draw a different level of interest.

I'm a proud Northamptonian but if you return to the town after years away it's shocking, you realise just how backward and risk averse the planners and the council really are so that will never happen, more Travelodge than Marriott.

Titanic just deck the chairs the on rearrange.



 Grin Grin Grin

That's probably what I actually wanted to say. Bit harsh on our female fan base.  Grin
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« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2021, 13:02:44 pm »

Some good points here folks, keep them coming and i'll write up some sort of response this evening.
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« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2021, 13:45:42 pm »

Ok, Iíve been a regular on this board for a good number of years now, and have recently joined the Trust board....what do you want me to do?

I presume youíve read my posts. That should be enough for anyone to be getting on with 😀😀
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« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2021, 13:51:21 pm »

Some good points here folks, keep them coming and i'll write up some sort of response this evening.

Thank you GPC. 
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