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KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.

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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2021, 11:09:11 am »

I deliberately didn't open this thread when it appeared yesterday because I suspected it would be people from both sides of a barely coherent debate having a hissy fit in the immediate wake of our relegation that would  inevitably descend into finger pointing and name calling. To be honest, that was the last thing I wanted to read yesterday. Looking at it now though, lo and behold...

Come on guys, pull yourselves together. We got relegated, we'll play another 46 league matches and a handful of cup matches next year, just at a lower level. Throwing your toys out of the pram and taking lumps out of each other won't change that and just looks embarrassing; any Peterborough fans coming along for a good gloat would be pìssing themselves reading this thread.

I’m genuine not all that fussed about relegation. I have seen so many ups and downs over the years, I couldn't care less, I will still be sat in my same seat, with same bunch of people, enjoying the experience.

What I find incredibly frustrating is need of some to create different camps. If you are not prepared to constantly have a pop at KT you are put by default into being a fan of his. I have no axe to grind with KT, for two reasons. Firstly, I never once doubted than any owner/owners would be attracted purely by the land. Secondly, he has accepted both my criticism and my praise about his tenure with a degree of intelligence and decorum, way above that of some others.

Another concern I have, and it must shared by KT and all of the staff at NTFC, is just how much this one issue detracts from the amount of fantastic work the club and its staff do only a daily basis. It must be a nightmare for morale, that one issue casts such a dark shadow over what is a multi faceted operation. With the exception of myself and a couple of others, you would be mistaken for thinking NTFC is nothing but a complete failure. That is simply not true. Their are some incredibly motivated individuals working there, who are supporters themselves.

I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is. But it will not be going anywhere near the Trust. They lack all of the principle skills to get any deal over the line. They’re paranoia about all things KT, precludes them from making anything other than subjective decisions. Not all of them, but most. They are set on a fan ownership model, I can’t recall that ever being voted on at all by the membership. For me that potentially puts them not only at odds with the wider support, but most likely with their own membership. I am completely fair when I say, put it to a vote. If the majority of the support decide on something, you’ve got me on board.

Until then, I am no more than a supporter of whatever methods that are employed to plonk a team in front of me, and look forward to next season as much as I have any.

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« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2021, 11:20:47 am »

I'm in

Regarding the anti- trust comments made by two on here they appeared to me to be personal comments rather than aimed directly at the Trust. At least on here you are seen as the voice of the Trust yet you get involved in unseemly arguments on NTFC goalkeepers.  Nobody doubts your integrity and love of the Club. Yet your drive to recruit more members has not taken off? Have you asked yourself why? Terry is right when suggesting there is no unifying figure to lead a challenge versus the current owners effectively. Perhaps an initiative to identify a charismatic Trust Candidate who might be capable of doing this, we are faced with the unedifying and ongoing issue with the current Directors.
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« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2021, 11:39:15 am »

Regarding the anti- trust comments made by two on here they appeared to me to be personal comments rather than aimed directly at the Trust. At least on here you are seen as the voice of the Trust yet you get involved in unseemly arguments on NTFC goalkeepers.  Nobody doubts your integrity and love of the Club. Yet your drive to recruit more members has not taken off? Have you asked yourself why? Terry is right when suggesting there is no unifying figure to lead a challenge versus the current owners effectively. Perhaps an initiative to identify a charismatic Trust Candidate who might be capable of doing this, we are faced with the unedifying and ongoing issue with the current Directors.

As with most of your comments, you are wrong. I am a Trust life member nothing more, nothing less. As a supporter I am quite entitled to comment on any NTFC players performance, just like everyone else, I NEVER comment about a person, just their performance.
   Thank you for informing me that my " drive to recruit more members has not taken off" as I didn't know I HAD a drive to recruit more members. What I had posted was, as in all forms of life, people are stronger when they are together and we need a strong group of supporters at NTFC.
   The Trust is there as a democratic supporters group, so it would be natural for fans to join, but it doesn't have to be the Trust, if someone else wants to form another democratic supporters group, they too will have my backing.
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« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2021, 12:12:41 pm »

Evers and Terry - You certainly seem to hold the Trust and it's members, far more accountable to their limited actions than KT and NTFC, that is why you get accused of being anti-NTFC (or whatever you want to call it)

Why do you defend KT and NTFC so much?  Yes they are human beings and working in their role but who is to blame for the FACTS that put them and NTFC in such a poor light?

Who is to blame or can make the changes that we turn the tide of constant underperforming, of no short, medium or long term plan?  Who is responsible for the broken windows not being fixed and are happy for that to continue, seemly not caring how that looks to others - including players and agents?

It's the little things that add up to make the different, but the little things are constantly ignored.

We have the smallest ground of any established league club and thats before you factor in catchment area and lack of high quality competition. We have no training facilities, tickets brought out of a cabin, we are non-league in many aspects. I am sure these are some of the issues that Brady is hinting at, he knows his hands are tied going forward. Again who wants to work for a business (when you can choose from 4-5 or more places to work) who have no ambitions and your work place in run down with broken windows, would YOU?

DC was desperate to get in League 1, yet KT has been gifted promotion TWICE, yet both time acted like Hammy and seemly doesn't seem to care what league we are in.

The Trust need to be more accommodating and modern in it's thinking, but it's not easy and even Drilling has softened his outlook the more he has been involved with the Trust.
 



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« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2021, 12:18:58 pm »

4000 members each contributing £1000 talk about pie in the sky figures!  
£1000 each are you serious  Grin Grin Roll Eyes

It was only a suggestion and as I said at the time probably naive, other clubs have managed similar things but unfortunately we are NTFC, where apathy seems to reign. The £1000 suggestion was only a start, which I'm sure plenty of people, if they are concerned about the future of our club, could easily stretch to and once the ball is rolling who knows, from tiny acorns and all that.
But at the moment only about 6 or 7 people have shown an interest and we'll probably only manage to stretch to 100 or so as there are too many people who are happy to accept what they've got and aren't too fussed as to what may be going on, à la Cardoza. So realistically it's a non starter.  Anyway Mr Evers, what's your suggestion for the future apart from snide digs and sarcastic comments. Do you have some sort of agenda?
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« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2021, 12:35:46 pm »

There are a lot of ‘wealthy’ local people who follow the Cobblers. Many of which who would have shelled out the 10 grand (or whatever it was) for the boxes. Getting that co-ordinated to take an actual interest in owning/running the club is a different matter. I do like the idea of fan ownership, even if it doesn’t springboard us to greater things.
It would just be nice (and maybe utopian) to be run by people who first and foremost have the clubs and fans best interests at heart. The issue I guess is that once anyone is actually invested in a business the goal posts can quickly change.
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« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2021, 14:04:28 pm »

It was only a suggestion and as I said at the time probably naive, other clubs have managed similar things but unfortunately we are NTFC, where apathy seems to reign. The £1000 suggestion was only a start, which I'm sure plenty of people, if they are concerned about the future of our club, could easily stretch to and once the ball is rolling who knows, from tiny acorns and all that.
But at the moment only about 6 or 7 people have shown an interest and we'll probably only manage to stretch to 100 or so as there are too many people who are happy to accept what they've got and aren't too fussed as to what may be going on, à la Cardoza. So realistically it's a non starter.  Anyway Mr Evers, what's your suggestion for the future apart from snide digs and sarcastic comments. Do you have some sort of agenda?

Sorry to hear that you decide to inject those two villains namely snide and sarcasm. I appreciate your comments might have been a impulse born out of desperation with perceived situation. Your repetitive argument against the current chairman is counter productive as is your call to another false ally namely apathy; counter productive also? To win the support of the ‘faithful’  it’s pointless calling them apathetic. Perhaps most of them are realistic or sensible enough to ignore your calls for some sort of consortium. You need urgently need to change track; why not join the Trust and give them more strings to their bow? Find a charismatic leader capable of gelling pro active support.
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« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2021, 14:55:13 pm »

Find a charismatic leader capable of gelling pro active support.

The most sensible think you have every said, possibly the only sensible thing you have ever said  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2021, 15:35:12 pm »

I don't know how much it will take to pay KT what he thinks he's due but it really is time for him to go. The council should not concede any land to get the stadium finished. Thanks again to him saving the club but please sell.
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« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2021, 16:04:13 pm »

£5M sould secure it.
 Its a no Brainer though because as Shoey says we are certain to make a profit. So  £5M at say 2%  would mean we only need 100K per annum. No problem.
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« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2021, 16:13:28 pm »

It's been 6 years since KT has come in and nothing has changed. Think it time for big changes, or, he has to leave. Fans have had enough now. Been going on for too long!
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« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2021, 16:22:31 pm »

The value of the club is £0, BUT, if the same deal is available as KT got, with the debt reduced to £0 and the cost of the club is £1 there would be a queue of people interested.
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« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2021, 17:11:00 pm »

Time to go – yes we have a club but enough is enough.
Thanks for saving us and thanks too for that brief period of belief when I thought we were finally going somewhere  when the ‘Chinese money' turned up. Unfortunately and given what’s happened since, there would seem to be insufficient will / finances to progress us further. Whilst the ‘land’ may be a golden chalice it and the parties involved and the associated ‘baggage' mean I feel it will either never be resolved satisfactorily or will do so in a way that gives no tangible benefit to the club itself.
Hate to say it but given the overall situation maybe the answer is to include the whole site in any deal and start again elsewhere but actually build something fit for purpose and ambitious in respect to the size of club the town / county could support.   This would need both progressive and ambitious owners / council and I can’t see that happening unless something significant changes. Alternatively a new owner with very deep pockets and a desire to progress the club in all respects would suit if one could indeed be found.
Have to say, I'd love it if we could just beat the Pish on a regular basis -  the fact we are so out of step with our rivals on so many levels, sadly says it all about where we find ourselves.
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« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2021, 17:17:25 pm »

I’m genuine not all that fussed about relegation. I have seen so many ups and downs over the years, I couldn't care less, I will still be sat in my same seat, with same bunch of people, enjoying the experience.

What I find incredibly frustrating is need of some to create different camps. If you are not prepared to constantly have a pop at KT you are put by default into being a fan of his. I have no axe to grind with KT, for two reasons. Firstly, I never once doubted than any owner/owners would be attracted purely by the land. Secondly, he has accepted both my criticism and my praise about his tenure with a degree of intelligence and decorum, way above that of some others.

Another concern I have, and it must shared by KT and all of the staff at NTFC, is just how much this one issue detracts from the amount of fantastic work the club and its staff do only a daily basis. It must be a nightmare for morale, that one issue casts such a dark shadow over what is a multi faceted operation. With the exception of myself and a couple of others, you would be mistaken for thinking NTFC is nothing but a complete failure. That is simply not true. Their are some incredibly motivated individuals working there, who are supporters themselves.

I am more than happy to put my money where my mouth is. But it will not be going anywhere near the Trust. They lack all of the principle skills to get any deal over the line. They’re paranoia about all things KT, precludes them from making anything other than subjective decisions. Not all of them, but most. They are set on a fan ownership model, I can’t recall that ever being voted on at all by the membership. For me that potentially puts them not only at odds with the wider support, but most likely with their own membership. I am completely fair when I say, put it to a vote. If the majority of the support decide on something, you’ve got me on board.

Until then, I am no more than a supporter of whatever methods that are employed to plonk a team in front of me, and look forward to next season as much as I have any.


Great post Tel, agree completely.
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« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2021, 17:59:05 pm »

Evers and Terry - You certainly seem to hold the Trust and it's members, far more accountable to their limited actions than KT and NTFC, that is why you get accused of being anti-NTFC (or whatever you want to call it)

Why do you defend KT and NTFC so much?  Yes they are human beings and working in their role but who is to blame for the FACTS that put them and NTFC in such a poor light?

Who is to blame or can make the changes that we turn the tide of constant underperforming, of no short, medium or long term plan?  Who is responsible for the broken windows not being fixed and are happy for that to continue, seemly not caring how that looks to others - including players and agents?

It's the little things that add up to make the different, but the little things are constantly ignored.

We have the smallest ground of any established league club and thats before you factor in catchment area and lack of high quality competition. We have no training facilities, tickets brought out of a cabin, we are non-league in many aspects. I am sure these are some of the issues that Brady is hinting at, he knows his hands are tied going forward. Again who wants to work for a business (when you can choose from 4-5 or more places to work) who have no ambitions and your work place in run down with broken windows, would YOU?

DC was desperate to get in League 1, yet KT has been gifted promotion TWICE, yet both time acted like Hammy and seemly doesn't seem to care what league we are in.

The Trust need to be more accommodating and modern in it's thinking, but it's not easy and even Drilling has softened his outlook the more he has been involved with the Trust.
 





It’s not a question of comparing my opinion of KT, compared to my opinion of the Trust board. I believe that there is a significant luxury in sitting back and offering up opinions on how someone else should spend their money. You and many others seem to forget that KT is effectively an employee, like everyone else at NTFC. He is not the main money man, yet takes the lions share of the flack. My experience of him has been positive and in fact he has quite open about his intentions. I am used to people like him, and I think he’s doing what he has been asked to, working as what can only be described as the meat in the sandwich.

In terms of my indifference about relegation. I would watch the Cobblers if they were playing on the moon if I had to. I have experienced football at every level and across different countries, viewing it at both standard and corporate. But, I can truly say that whoever and wherever NTFC are playing, I still get the buzz. No matter who runs the club, or what league we are in. I will not be embarrassed by my desire to be part of the club going forward. Of course I hope for better times and a nicer stadium, but it ranks quite low in what makes me happy.

A few weeks back a good friend of mine passed away from COVID. He was a work colleague and a true Cobbler. He even played at youth level for the club. One of the families wishes for him, was that the hearse went past the club on the way to the crematorium. Obviously he was only allowed very limited numbers at the cream. His wife asked if those that stood on the hill could where cobblers colours. I got in touch with the club, within a matter of hours they supplied me with a significant amount of shirts for the mourners to where. They also made other offers to me for the family.

Now, I could name so many times that the club has helped me, or so many other people, nearly all of which fly’s under the radar. The club has its issues. But it is not some malevolent monster with scant regard for its support. On the whole it is caring, considerate club. There is a very vocal few, who have made it their mission to undermine and poor scorn on everything NTFC. They have lost complete sight of the larger picture, and become engulfed in only the shortcomings of the club. They have forgotten the lure of the floodlights, the smell of the balti pies, the butterflies in the stomach on a match day/night, and replaced it with vitriol and venom. Not me... I'm still that tiny lad, who walked towards those floodlights across the racecourse all those years ago. Nothings putting me off it. Not KT, Not the Trust, and  certainly no one on here. Onwards and upwards I say... Or downwards just for now 😀😀😀   

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« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2021, 18:34:38 pm »

It’s not a question of comparing my opinion of KT, compared to my opinion of the Trust board. I believe that there is a significant luxury in sitting back and offering up opinions on how someone else should spend their money. You and many others seem to forget that KT is effectively an employee, like everyone else at NTFC. He is not the main money man, yet takes the lions share of the flack. My experience of him has been positive and in fact he has quite open about his intentions. I am used to people like him, and I think he’s doing what he has been asked to, working as what can only be described as the meat in the sandwich.

In terms of my indifference about relegation. I would watch the Cobblers if they were playing on the moon if I had to. I have experienced football at every level and across different countries, viewing it at both standard and corporate. But, I can truly say that whoever and wherever NTFC are playing, I still get the buzz. No matter who runs the club, or what league we are in. I will not be embarrassed by my desire to be part of the club going forward. Of course I hope for better times and a nicer stadium, but it ranks quite low in what makes me happy.

A few weeks back a good friend of mine passed away from COVID. He was a work colleague and a true Cobbler. He even played at youth level for the club. One of the families wishes for him, was that the hearse went past the club on the way to the crematorium. Obviously he was only allowed very limited numbers at the cream. His wife asked if those that stood on the hill could where cobblers colours. I got in touch with the club, within a matter of hours they supplied me with a significant amount of shirts for the mourners to where. They also made other offers to me for the family.

Now, I could name so many times that the club has helped me, or so many other people, nearly all of which fly’s under the radar. The club has its issues. But it is not some malevolent monster with scant regard for its support. On the whole it is caring, considerate club. There is a very vocal few, who have made it their mission to undermine and poor scorn on everything NTFC. They have lost complete sight of the larger picture, and become engulfed in only the shortcomings of the club. They have forgotten the lure of the floodlights, the smell of the balti pies, the butterflies in the stomach on a match day/night, and replaced it with vitriol and venom. Not me... I'm still that tiny lad, who walked towards those floodlights across the racecourse all those years ago. Nothings putting me off it. Not KT, Not the Trust, and  certainly no one on here. Onwards and upwards I say... Or downwards just for now 😀😀😀   

Well said, I'm massively proud of the work the club does in the community, and that's doubly true over the course of the pandemic.

I've moaned before about people shaking their head and dismissing football as "only a game", people who are at a loss to understand why we care about it as much as we all do (my wife among them!). Those people just don't get it, don't get that it isn't just about 22 blokes chasing after a ball for 90 minutes, don't get that it's about passion, pride, community and belonging to a bigger whole.

The thing that I've come to realise lately though, for 90 minutes on a match day, it IS just a game! It's about the atmosphere, the elation, the despair, the oohs and ahhs (and arghs!) and more than anything, it's just something to do on a Saturday afternoon!!! It doesn't really matter if we are playing Swansea, Shrewsbury, Sc***horpe or, frankly, Solihull Moors; for that 90 minutes it's all the same from the stands and I'd be there regardless. So while it's disappointing to go down, I'm nowhere as near bothered about it as I would have been a few years ago. I'll still have a game to go to (or at the very least watch) next season.

I'm sure this will be greeted with howls of derision and accusations of apathy, but we waste so much time, energy and emotion debating the minutiae of the running of our club on here that at times the matches themselves become an afterthought.

A very wise woman once gave me some good advice - don't worry about things you can't control. We as fans kid ourselves if we think we have any significant influence on how the club is run, but at the end of the day we still churn out a lot of hot air and worn out keyboards while thinking that we do.

I think some people need to take a step back and think about why they came to love the Cobblers in the first place. If they can't reconnect with that, maybe, for their own wellbeing, they should have a bit of a break from things.
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« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2021, 18:50:03 pm »

I posted on here a few weeks ago asking what people don't like about the Trust but got no answers. So I'll make it personal, TCobb says "Personally don't want either anywhere near the running of the Club"  and Singcobb says in answer to Manwork saying we should back the Trust  "If that's the case we're fúcked"

I accept that everyone is entitled to an opinion, so can I politely ask what are the reasons for you to hold such views ?

I'll answer seeing as you have asked twice now.

Here's what I like about the Trust first though.  It's run by dedicated individuals who give up their own personal time for a cause they believe in.  We are all Cobblers fans.  I genuinely think deep down everyone involved is well meaning and wants the best for our club.  I think some board members listen and even if they don't agree engage well like Drilling for instance.  I think new board members like GPC will bring welcome new ideas and engagement as well which is a positive.

Here's why I don't like the Trust.

They have no power therefore relatively minor influence on anything to do with our football club.  They don't have a large enough membership and I don't believe they truly represent the views of the majority of supporters, whether members or not.

I would ask what have the trust done for me as a supporter over the last 5 years.  What noticeable difference have the trust made to my experience of attending matches at the Cobblers (when we could).  In what way am I better off as a supporter for the trust even existing.  This doesn't mean I don't think a trust or supporters group should exist I just think an effective and relevant one needs to exist.

I said several years ago on this board various things the trust should do to achieve relevance and to become more effective and all you receive in return is a "why don't you do it then" or "come and join the board and do something about it".  As if that's a suitable answer to give everyone.  Any criticism tends to be received by the trust in a confrontational manner and is simply dismissed as irrelevant moaning.

I work long hours, have two children, coach football 3 days a week and at the weekend so have no free time to join organisations such as this and yet because of that my opinion is somehow irrelevant or dismissed.

That's even aside from the fact that I don't agree with how the trust is run and is making decisions on what the supporters want without really engaging with their membership let alone the wider support base.  Whenever I ask in the past how the trust truly know they are doing what the fans want I just got batted away with comments regarding it's not how organisations work and you can't ask supporters every time you make a decision.  How ridiculous is that when the trust has been pushing big issues such as fan ownership as what "us fans" want without actually asking whether it really is!  Even the recent poll they ran which they are now claiming gives a mandate for change at the club was filled I think with only four, heavily loaded questions that were pretty much the equivalent of asking if Turkeys like Xmas.  I can't remember any of the exact wording but it was things like...Do you think the training and other infrastructure around the club should be invested in and improved.  What fan would say no to that???  I'm sure we will see in the future comments such as 97% of cobblers fans wanted improvement to the infrastructure.  Why not ask...do you want a billionaire owner to take over and lift the club to the premier league?  or Would you like the team to win the league next season?

I said years ago the trust need more members and that should be their number one priority along with engaging with those members new and old more often.  I do see posts being made on Twitter and the "new" website so I can see efforts are being made but it's clearly not being engaged with.  Rather than certain individuals involved or on the committee of the trust blaming the "sheep" fans for showing apathy you should be trying to understand why there is so much apathy and coming up with different ideas of how to change it.

I also said years ago that the trust in co-ordination with the club or the clubs community trust should lead a large fan related project that benefits the wider support base.  Show supporters you are capable of taking on a decent sized project and work for the benefit of all supporters.  This goes back to my earlier point of doing something I can benefit from.  Something that engages supporters and the fans can see what benefits a strong supporters trust can bring to them.  Eventually proving you could run a club in the long run or show how much better and fan friendly things could be if you were in charge.  The new Hotel End Project recently talked about is a prime example of something the trust shouldn't just be involved with it's something they should be leading.  Prove your value!

In addition I hate the way the trust make themselves come across anti-club.  Constantly making little snipes when they can.  You'll say your are not but you have to realise that if you attack the ownership to the general masses you come across as bitter and anti club.  There are some hard working indivduals at the club who do great jobs but I rarely see any praise or acknowledgment of this.  Let's go back to the meeting several years ago regarding fan ownership where some of the comments made and literature handed out was so self righteous in telling everyone how sh!t the club is run and how easy it would be to fix it and what they should change.  This being done while offering little or no information on how it could be achieved and the little was offered didn't stand up to even the most minor of scrutiny.

If the current owners really are as bad as they are being made out to be spell it out for me and others why things should change.  Give me a tangible alternative not some pie in the sky 50+1 owenership model, fan ownership or part owenership with a local businessman.  I've no great love for KT and his ownership but there are constant little snipes like the recent one about foreign ownership and trying to liken this to our current owners.  If bad stuff is going on behind the scenes tell us what it is.  If you can't prove anything that can convince the masses you are better off trying to be positive and prove there is another way.

The last for now, although I have plenty of other reasons, is I simply don't think fan ownership in any form currently is the right option unless there was a wholesale change in the way football is run.  It would simply place a lower ceiling over the club than exists already.  My personal opinion is it would limit the club to the bottom league permanently if not worse.  There wouldn't be a benefactor to put in £500k to break even or see us through massive impacts such as Covid has been.  I see the same people complain about private ownership that then complain about us not having a larger playing budget or buying a striker like Pish do.  I see the same people who think we should have a new training ground but offer not suggestion of how this is achieved and then complain about debt to our current owner rising on a yearly basis.  Yet if we were fan owned/partially owned we would have the same problems if not more restrictions on any of this being achieved.

It's the sheer arrogance of an organisation and it's commitee and more vocal supporters telling us how badly things are being done currently and what should be done but offering no practical solutions and offering no tangible proof they could do better.

Look at Twitter and witness some of the vocal minority that are aligned with the trust either on the committee or certainly closely involved and witness how they engage with the club's tweets and local media.  Look at the way they engage with supporters that don't agree with them.  The aim should be to take people with you on a journey not bully, harass them and call them sheep.  I wouldn't give them 10 seconds of my time let alone spend time debating with them in committee meetings.  I know what people will say.  Just because tehy are on the committee they are a supporter and entitled to their personal opinion.  Yes you are.  But......how can I trust people that conduct themselves this way to represent mine and other supporters views if they behave and feel the way they do and mine and other views are so different from their own.

That's it for now as this post is already massive and I'm sure I have bored most people.  I'm sure people will respond and I'll have more to add.  You did ask.   
   
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SadOldGit
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« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2021, 19:06:49 pm »

No way am I reading all that.
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« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2021, 19:09:07 pm »

Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners



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« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2021, 19:13:11 pm »

I'll answer seeing as you have asked twice now.

Here's what I like about the Trust first though.  It's run by dedicated individuals who give up their own personal time for a cause they believe in.  We are all Cobblers fans.  I genuinely think deep down everyone involved is well meaning and wants the best for our club.  I think some board members listen and even if they don't agree engage well like Drilling for instance.  I think new board members like GPC will bring welcome new ideas and engagement as well which is a positive.

Here's why I don't like the Trust.

They have no power therefore relatively minor influence on anything to do with our football club.  They don't have a large enough membership and I don't believe they truly represent the views of the majority of supporters, whether members or not.

I would ask what have the trust done for me as a supporter over the last 5 years.  What noticeable difference have the trust made to my experience of attending matches at the Cobblers (when we could).  In what way am I better off as a supporter for the trust even existing.  This doesn't mean I don't think a trust or supporters group should exist I just think an effective and relevant one needs to exist.

I said several years ago on this board various things the trust should do to achieve relevance and to become more effective and all you receive in return is a "why don't you do it then" or "come and join the board and do something about it".  As if that's a suitable answer to give everyone.  Any criticism tends to be received by the trust in a confrontational manner and is simply dismissed as irrelevant moaning.

I work long hours, have two children, coach football 3 days a week and at the weekend so have no free time to join organisations such as this and yet because of that my opinion is somehow irrelevant or dismissed.

That's even aside from the fact that I don't agree with how the trust is run and is making decisions on what the supporters want without really engaging with their membership let alone the wider support base.  Whenever I ask in the past how the trust truly know they are doing what the fans want I just got batted away with comments regarding it's not how organisations work and you can't ask supporters every time you make a decision.  How ridiculous is that when the trust has been pushing big issues such as fan ownership as what "us fans" want without actually asking whether it really is!  Even the recent poll they ran which they are now claiming gives a mandate for change at the club was filled I think with only four, heavily loaded questions that were pretty much the equivalent of asking if Turkeys like Xmas.  I can't remember any of the exact wording but it was things like...Do you think the training and other infrastructure around the club should be invested in and improved.  What fan would say no to that???  I'm sure we will see in the future comments such as 97% of cobblers fans wanted improvement to the infrastructure.  Why not ask...do you want a billionaire owner to take over and lift the club to the premier league?  or Would you like the team to win the league next season?

I said years ago the trust need more members and that should be their number one priority along with engaging with those members new and old more often.  I do see posts being made on Twitter and the "new" website so I can see efforts are being made but it's clearly not being engaged with.  Rather than certain individuals involved or on the committee of the trust blaming the "sheep" fans for showing apathy you should be trying to understand why there is so much apathy and coming up with different ideas of how to change it.

I also said years ago that the trust in co-ordination with the club or the clubs community trust should lead a large fan related project that benefits the wider support base.  Show supporters you are capable of taking on a decent sized project and work for the benefit of all supporters.  This goes back to my earlier point of doing something I can benefit from.  Something that engages supporters and the fans can see what benefits a strong supporters trust can bring to them.  Eventually proving you could run a club in the long run or show how much better and fan friendly things could be if you were in charge.  The new Hotel End Project recently talked about is a prime example of something the trust shouldn't just be involved with it's something they should be leading.  Prove your value!

In addition I hate the way the trust make themselves come across anti-club.  Constantly making little snipes when they can.  You'll say your are not but you have to realise that if you attack the ownership to the general masses you come across as bitter and anti club.  There are some hard working indivduals at the club who do great jobs but I rarely see any praise or acknowledgment of this.  Let's go back to the meeting several years ago regarding fan ownership where some of the comments made and literature handed out was so self righteous in telling everyone how sh!t the club is run and how easy it would be to fix it and what they should change.  This being done while offering little or no information on how it could be achieved and the little was offered didn't stand up to even the most minor of scrutiny.

If the current owners really are as bad as they are being made out to be spell it out for me and others why things should change.  Give me a tangible alternative not some pie in the sky 50+1 owenership model, fan ownership or part owenership with a local businessman.  I've no great love for KT and his ownership but there are constant little snipes like the recent one about foreign ownership and trying to liken this to our current owners.  If bad stuff is going on behind the scenes tell us what it is.  If you can't prove anything that can convince the masses you are better off trying to be positive and prove there is another way.

The last for now, although I have plenty of other reasons, is I simply don't think fan ownership in any form currently is the right option unless there was a wholesale change in the way football is run.  It would simply place a lower ceiling over the club than exists already.  My personal opinion is it would limit the club to the bottom league permanently if not worse.  There wouldn't be a benefactor to put in £500k to break even or see us through massive impacts such as Covid has been.  I see the same people complain about private ownership that then complain about us not having a larger playing budget or buying a striker like Pish do.  I see the same people who think we should have a new training ground but offer not suggestion of how this is achieved and then complain about debt to our current owner rising on a yearly basis.  Yet if we were fan owned/partially owned we would have the same problems if not more restrictions on any of this being achieved.

It's the sheer arrogance of an organisation and it's commitee and more vocal supporters telling us how badly things are being done currently and what should be done but offering no practical solutions and offering no tangible proof they could do better.

Look at Twitter and witness some of the vocal minority that are aligned with the trust either on the committee or certainly closely involved and witness how they engage with the club's tweets and local media.  Look at the way they engage with supporters that don't agree with them.  The aim should be to take people with you on a journey not bully, harass them and call them sheep.  I wouldn't give them 10 seconds of my time let alone spend time debating with them in committee meetings.  I know what people will say.  Just because tehy are on the committee they are a supporter and entitled to their personal opinion.  Yes you are.  But......how can I trust people that conduct themselves this way to represent mine and other supporters views if they behave and feel the way they do and mine and other views are so different from their own.

That's it for now as this post is already massive and I'm sure I have bored most people.  I'm sure people will respond and I'll have more to add.  You did ask.   
   

I don't disagree with any of that, to be honest.
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