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KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.

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Author Topic: KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.  (Read 5512 times)
Carton Lid
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« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2021, 19:32:56 pm »

Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  Shocked
 
   
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« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2021, 19:33:46 pm »

In the past the Trust were very reluctant to criticise the club & DC and look what happened.

The Trust were there with the buckets but missed a massive massive opportunity to gain some control and build up membership. I suggested every donation included an offer of membership too but was dismissed due to 'membership rules'

KT has come in, refused to pay back £10k, withdrawn the board seat, said our club is not worth developing, failed to deliver on agreements, taken £6m from Chinese investor according to a Telegraph journalist, has not even kept the ground in decent condition, set-up their own supporter panel in direct conflict with the Trust, refused to engage with them UNTIL KT thought they might help with NBC, so no I don't blame them for not being overly supportive.

IT IS CLEAR KT HAS NO INTEREST IN YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB PEOPLE, he is the one the focus should be on.

Yes of course the club does a lot in the community, as does every club. But we have just got relegated with the lowest no of goals, whilst other smaller clubs like Accrington, Fleetwood, Burton, Wimbledon & MK plus similar size ones like Crewe, Lincoln, Sh*tboro, Gillingham and Shrewsbury all have done better than us AGAIN.

A heard (indirectly) from a local legend that the core of the club is very poor and has been for many many years. Until that changes then nothing really will.

I would love to hear from those at the club, James Whiting, Nick (secretary), Avril (stadium manager) Caroline Lucy (Commercial Manager), and Gareth (Head of media), all have been in their posts for many many years, do they have any answers? Surely they know better than anyone? or are they too entrenched, too close, accepted too much mediocrity ?

Or is solely the playing side?  the coaches, the managers, the players?

If we do so much in the community, why is there so much destain and apathy for our club from our own supporters, why is our customer base not growing in a time that has seen the population within the area increase by 50% or more over the last 20 years
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MCHammer
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« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2021, 19:59:43 pm »

Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners


The question I was asked is what I don't like about the trust.  Conflating this with our ownership and current situation on and off the field seems to be common practice when any purely trust criticism is given.  Showing me how sh1t the club is somehow makes my points about the trust irrelevant?

In response to your question regarding the fan ownership model being pie in the sky.  I've explained that already in that any fan ownership of any model is massively limited when most other clubs are not playing by the same rules.  A club run under a strict break even policy with limited financial flexibility is always going to find things tougher than one that has owners with deep pockets.  Not saying it's fair or right it's a fact of life that the current structure of football allows.

In addition any proposals from the trust regarding a fan ownership model have had no detail whatsoever.  Hence again why I say pie in the sky.  It's a dream with no substance behind it.  How would it work.  Who are these local businessmen desperate to be involved.  What would it mean for the club financially in the short term.  I've not even seen anything of even high level detail about how it would work and why I should support it.  But I've said this already in my original post.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2021, 20:31:39 pm »

Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  Shocked
 
   

Well... You can report back to your mates on the board, that it’s time they organised something then.
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« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2021, 20:40:50 pm »

In response to Carton Lid, McHammer sums up a lot of my feelings towards the Trust. My biggest gripe is they seem to think the "Membership" is the be all and end all, not taking into consideration the wider support base. A fair few years ago, on the old forum, when asked by people on the Trust for ideas, i put forward the idea of the fans being more involved in fund raising for ground improvements, the idea was laughed and dismissed as a ridiculous suggestion. A few years ago i made some further ideas available, which, i was told would be forwarded to the Trust and they would get back to me, still waiting !!!
They seemed to give DC a free hand when it came to signing off the East Stand debacle. Last but not least, when a certain lawyer wanted to take over the club, the Trust balloted the membership to see the fans views, before the votes had been counted the Trust announced in the local media, that they were against the deal, democratic really ?
I probably could go on ,but like i say i think McHammer covers it better than me.
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« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2021, 21:23:51 pm »

In response to Carton Lid, McHammer sums up a lot of my feelings towards the Trust. My biggest gripe is they seem to think the "Membership" is the be all and end all, not taking into consideration the wider support base. A fair few years ago, on the old forum, when asked by people on the Trust for ideas, i put forward the idea of the fans being more involved in fund raising for ground improvements, the idea was laughed and dismissed as a ridiculous suggestion. A few years ago i made some further ideas available, which, i was told would be forwarded to the Trust and they would get back to me, still waiting !!!
They seemed to give DC a free hand when it came to signing off the East Stand debacle. Last but not least, when a certain lawyer wanted to take over the club, the Trust balloted the membership to see the fans views, before the votes had been counted the Trust announced in the local media, that they were against the deal, democratic really ?
I probably could go on ,but like i say i think McHammer covers it better than me.

For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.
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« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2021, 21:34:06 pm »

For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.

So history tells you they are not worth trusting (😆) even though they are a completely different set of people in a completely different era. Perhaps I should give Dr Feelgood another listen?
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« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2021, 21:44:19 pm »

Leopards and spots
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« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2021, 21:47:15 pm »

Leopards and spots

Charming!
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2021, 22:15:42 pm »

Charming!

😀😀 That open mind is starting to slowly close...
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« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2021, 22:20:06 pm »

Leopards and spots

Is that it? Oh dear, we thought you were a rational chap/ette.
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« Reply #91 on: May 02, 2021, 22:44:42 pm »

MCH has covered much if not all of my feelings too. People can defend the Trust and people can attack it but what is undeniable is that if their are this many members and others saying the same thing then the Trust has to listen and change? If it doesn’t it will remain divisive and to some degree neuter itself IMO.

Banging the same drum I always have the Trust has 1 primary function, and that is to represent its members and the wider fan base? If this many members have an issue then why are they not dealing with it head on and entering into a process to evaluate how it is run and its decision making process? I feel there is a suspicion that the Trust is being run so that some can further their own agendas and this needs to be stamped on and addressed?

If I were running the Trust I would have 2 priorities. The first would be to galvanise the support into a unified voice and fully engage with the membership to ensure the Trust fully complied with its wishes. This would be to the extent that I would carry out its wishes whether I agreed with them or not? The second would be to attempt to unify the supporters groups from all around the leagues into a single union. Then real pressure could be brought against the football authorities to change legislation into how football is run and the like? Particularly if each season you joined the union whos division you happened to be in? Believe me if the Trust could pull that off they would grow some teeth? But they must do anything with the full and consistent endorsement of the membership?

The facts are these, the Trust can carry on the way it’s going and remain with the level of influence it has now? Or it can embark on a radical process of change and perhaps become the organisation we all hope it can be? They key word in that last sentence is “all”.
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« Reply #92 on: May 03, 2021, 00:24:50 am »

For me their complicity in this destroyed any respect I had for The Trust.
You do know that David Jackson and Barry Handcock were also board members at this time, so do you hold them in similar disdain ?
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« Reply #93 on: May 03, 2021, 05:07:41 am »

Well it looks like people think that even if fans get together and pull in the same direction, they cant change anything. Oh hang on a minute, I've just watched the news from Old Trafford  Shocked
 
   
Who did the people at Old Trafford represent and what exactly have they achieved?

My understanding is that the scenes of violence and mayhem have been widely condemned by supporters groups? The danger is that the law abiding majority may be reluctant to align themselves with the actions taken and any momentum may be put in jeopardy or lost? This is the problem when individuals take matters into their own hands? Whilst they may be acting on behalf of the majority, they also may not? The point is they wouldn't have the first damn clue whether they do or not and that for me is unacceptable, that is before you even get to the unlawful behaviour?

I am sure there are many that would be gloating at the actions of the baying mob and the power they exerted in getting the game called off, as they have without question won this battle? However, with police seriously injured and the whole integrity of sections of Manchester United supporters brought into question they may well have lost or at the very least compromised their position in the war as a result of their actions? All this does for me is emphasise the fact that any actions taken should be only with the majority consensus of the supporters groups, especially if those actions are being carried out by what's reported to be 200 thugs in the name of Manchester United supporters? Obtain the support of the majority consensus or weaken your position and risk everything that you are working for is the message I am getting?

If you believe this is an incident to be applauded and a desirable outcome for Manchester United supporters then that's your opinion, but I for one have to question it? Time will tell? 
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« Reply #94 on: May 03, 2021, 05:43:28 am »

Not sure what to make of your post MC ! I will pick-up on just one thing. Please reply

You want information from the Trust then just dismiss it as pie in the sky. Why exactly is fan ownership with local businessman pie in the sky?

It is pie in the sky is because you are dealing with people who have broken promises time and time again, they have moved the goal posts so many times, failed to offer any development of the club, paid £1 to take control and then quoted 2 different prices to 2 different people with 2 days (and the price difference was double!). For whatever reason they don't want to sell. I can only assume they are waiting for another bunch of clueless (or criminal) investors to pay them another £6m down payment. (or its building up tax losses to off-set if they do get a land sale) Perhaps they are charging the club £1m + per year in consultancy fees.

Many have taken this stand with the Trust and just demand everything, then as soon as the Trust start to produce something, like the leaflet, it is instantly dismissed and ridiculed.

All the while our club suffers another year of slow death with owners only interested in the surrounding land and not the football club, yet they are not questioned or put under anywhere near pressure the Trust are.

Seems many are happy to blame the Trust for our failings (yes they certainly could have been better) rather than the owners




[/quote
Ascertaining how much they are taking our shouldn't be difficult.it should be broken down in the Accounts as either Directors emoluments or as a related party transaction.
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« Reply #95 on: May 03, 2021, 06:31:46 am »

Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point
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Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
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« Reply #96 on: May 03, 2021, 06:43:32 am »

Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


"This report is being shared with the Football Supporters Association and also NTFC chairman Kelvin Thomas and chief executive James Whiting."

And then what?
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« Reply #97 on: May 03, 2021, 07:08:06 am »

Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


I hadn't seen that. Dear oh dear... if you've surveyed nearly 900 people then you should really report back some actual stats on what was said (i.e. 55% of respondents felt...while 40% felt the opposite with 5% not expressing an opinion). If you merely report back your interpretation of the results then the survey means nothing because, as we've proved time and again on this site, stats can be read one way by one person and entirely a different way by another. Without backing your interpretation with hard figures that allow others to evaluate your interpretation, then the results carry no weight whatsoever!

As for this bit about the ESL:

Quote
The consensus was that if the big six wanted to seek vast fortunes in a continental league then let them get on with it!

Christ. Did people really say that? We don't exist in splendid isolation and the wider football infrastructure effects us indirectly if not directly. If most of our fans are so naive and insular (not my team, not my problem, guv!) they really feel this way (not to mention fan's groups throwing this opinion out there in such a flippant and dismissive manner) then it's further evidence they shouldn't be anywhere near running a football club.
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« Reply #98 on: May 03, 2021, 07:42:08 am »

Results of the Trust survey

Infrastructure the Conversation's big talking point!

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/infrastructure-the-conversations-big-talking-point


Which Trust members were surveyed for either of these?  Huh?
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« Reply #99 on: May 03, 2021, 07:56:41 am »

Which Trust members were surveyed for either of these?  Huh?
I happened to go on the website so responded myself. However, as stated earlier there are no actual figures published so it’s difficult to gauge the strength of feeling, or how the responses have been interpreted? This is particularly relevant as people were given options regarding the strength of feeling i.e. agree, strongly agree etc when answering the survey? I think it would be beneficial if the Trust publish the full results, perhaps they intend to?
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