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KELVIN THOMAS TIME TO GO.

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St Edmundsbury Cobbler
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« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2021, 14:10:02 pm »

This type of thread pops up time and again asking what does the Trust do? Why should I join the Trust etc. I remember it being discussed on "Cobblers Comments"

I see the Trust as quite a stuffy relic, it's a "members only" club and even if you are a member, I don't necessarily think the needs or wants of the average Northampton Town Trust Member are addressed or answered.

The "Football Conversation" questions, I've seen two links to them, generally asking the same questions but no real output or response or any plan formulated from them.

As someone said earlier, take a look at that website right now and tell me you honestly think "wow, I need to get on board with this...",  This is your window to the world, your main platform, yet there's nothing that makes you want to go beyond the main page. Scroll down to the bottom and you'll find the news that the next three fixtures against Crewe, Cambridge and Forest Green Rovers are all postponed due to Covid.

There's nothing there that makes me at 45 years old remotely interested in the Trust, let alone someone around 30 years my junior.

If you want the Trust to represent the fans of NTFC and you want the fans of NTFC to get on board, if you seriously believe that fan ownership is the way forward and you want fans to believe you can run a professional football club then you are going to need to overhaul the whole organisation, become open, honest and approachable and bring it kicking and screaming from 1993 into 2021.

A couple of questions

What are the Trust's views on The proposed government football fans forum and have you made a move to be part of that?

One other question, would removing Kelvin Thomas as chairman make any difference? Is he not just the face of the board like Colonal Sanders is the face of KFC?


« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 14:31:19 pm by St Edmundsbury Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2021, 14:34:14 pm »

Reading some of the comments it does sound as though the time is right for a Supporters Trust 2.0.
Whether any person or group has the inclination, time, energy, influence, commitment and probably initial funds to do so remains to be seen.
It's either got to come from current Trust members or something new.
Maybe they broke the mold with the late Brian Lomax.
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« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2021, 14:36:50 pm »

Great post Battery although I think the Trust board and any fans who want to voice an opinion, should decide what their chosen outcome is and present it to the fans (like they did before) but it needs to be done more in stages so it builds momentum rather than one big meeting, then nothing.

Afterall they are the ones who will drive any fans change forward. It's ok to do a vote now but with so much apathy around I'm not sure you would get any change. There will always be the majority who will sit back and let everyone else do the work and take the risks. Hence why we are where we are today.

As said the campaign needs to be much more on social media and needs to be harder hitting. Perhaps instead of "we want answers" how about "we have questions" and those questions needs to shed light on KT's failures / lack of care for the club. ie: When are you going to pay back our £10k? What happened to the £6m it was reported that the Chinese paid and lost for a share of NTFC?  Is completing the East stand the same or thereabouts from DC plans?  How many broken windows do you have in your home ? Why have the broken windows at Sixfields not been repaired ?  What message do you think this sends to players, agents, fans, staff and football people in general?  Bit longwinded but sure you get the point.

Are you actually Cardoza in disguise ?  

Are you part of a clandestine group of foreign football owners whose aim to take as much OUT of English football as possible, whilst appearing to be a friendly, rather clueless operator like DSI Buckles?  Grin Grin Grin

If the club had good people trying to drive the club forward I am pretty sure other investors would be attracted - just like Wycombe. Be interesting to see how they get on next season.

You see this is exactly what I was talking about in my orginal post.  Negativity, blame, excuses of apathy and claims of how easily it can be done better.  We can all play Fantasy Football Owner when we want to and I'm pretty sure most of us think we could do better.  The only people you will impress by acting like this are the small amount of individuals that already agree with you.

Unless I'm mistaken about who you are in "real life" I understand you have just joined the Trust Board as well.  If true then that makes me sad as these will be the sort of views that you will be representing when acting for us the supporters.  If they are your tweets I read over the last month to local media then even worse.

Whether you like it or not a large amount of the clubs supporters see KT as the guy that saved the club from going bust.  They like him.  They see him via Bower financially supporting a loss making entity.   Most seem to want him here because while some alternatives may be better they also know, as history has shown us many times, some alternatives could be much, much worse.

What you and the trust should be doing is showing a positive vision to fans of how it could be better but backing that up with hard evidence of how it would be done.  Take me and them on a positive journey of how things could change and most importantly how you would do it.  Don't continually go on about how badly it's currently being done show me how it can be done differently/better and back this with evidence and a real plan.  As I said before take on a project that fans can really get behind and engage with.  I ask again what has the trust done for the benefit of the fans in the last 5 years?

By all means hold KT to account but the Trust is supposed to be a "critical friend".  I don't see any friendship being shown from either side.  You can choose to accept what I say or not as is your right.  The problem is when the Trust or its representatives continually attack KT it comes across as an attack on the club and it's staff.  Imagine working somewhere where you are sweating your nuts off trying to get the most out of what you have within limited finances and have armchair critics constantly telling you what a sh1t job you are doing but offering no viable alternative.  I know many people who genuinely think that the Trust hates the club.  I know that's not true but it's all about perception and negativity breeds this perception.
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« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2021, 14:44:06 pm »

Personally, I am no longer on the Trust Board. I only make that point because I've been referenced a couple of times.

I hadn't seen that and that's a real shame although fully appreciate the reasons why you would want to step down.  Thanks for the time you gave to it, engaging with people on here and remaining true to your own opinions and beliefs even if they didn't always completely match those of the rest of the board.

Enjoy being a supporter again if that's possible  Grin
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« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2021, 15:03:50 pm »


  I ask again what has the trust done for the benefit of the fans in the last 5 years?  The deal that KT & DB Used to buy NTFC was brokered between the Trust & NBC.


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« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2021, 15:36:54 pm »

Before providing a "Statement from the Trust", consult with the membership, not just the board members and not with the closed questions that we have seen previously.
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« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2021, 16:04:48 pm »

The deal that KT & DB Used to buy NTFC was brokered between the Trust & NBC.

That was more than 5 years ago.

Part of The Trust mission statement says:

"Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton
We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters. We further commit to providing financial support to NTFC through increased shareholding and to ensure this investment is of general or specific benefit to our members."

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/mission-statement

So during the last 5 years, how and what specific or general benefit did members or the wider supporters base receive?  What financial support was provided to NTFC to achieve those benefits and how much did our shareholding increase by?

I'm not trying to nail anyone to the wall here.  I'm trying to remind people what the trust should and claims to exist for.  To also point out that if you offer no tangible benefit or purpose to the wider support base then how do you ever expect to be relevant or increase membership.
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« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2021, 16:18:12 pm »

I think as well that the Trust board needs to decide if they are happy for fans who are not members and who have been critical of the way they have operated to become part of this. I would hope that they will welcome all and that everyone can work together to make something happen. I would also suggest that it may be time to start talking to businessmen and money men to see if anybody has an interest in being involved with a league 2 club from a part ownership perspective.
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« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2021, 16:39:44 pm »

I hadn't seen that and that's a real shame although fully appreciate the reasons why you would want to step down.  Thanks for the time you gave to it, engaging with people on here and remaining true to your own opinions and beliefs even if they didn't always completely match those of the rest of the board.

Enjoy being a supporter again if that's possible  Grin

Ill try!!  Grin

Thanks for the kind words. I will always voice my opinions and try to do so in a way that is respectful. It will be interesting to see how things progress in the coming weeks and months ahead, on and off the pitch. A change of direction is most certainly needed but for me its a collective challenge, and that the club and the Trust need to work on together. That doesn't mean that they have to wedge themselves together, but if they can find 'significant common ground' shall we say then further down the line perhaps the outlook for all concerned will be a much more positive one.

Its a hugely time consuming journey, and if I was in a different place Id have tried to influence it in a positive way. But we've just bought a caravan on the East Coast (wheres 'Ted' when you need him!!), and are spending most weekends there as well as all school holidays (I can work remotely fortunately). I've also got an allotment, an established business, one I'm trying to build, and an 11 year old. Zooms two or three times a week in the evenings talking about football, just cant spare the time for it.

So Ill just stick to a few posts on here, a few tweets after matches, and a few beers before and after the games hopefully come August onwards. When I've flogged my business's for 150million quid Ill be back and try and take us up to the premier league before having to declare myself bankrupt when we fail at the 2nd attempt in the championship playoffs!!  Grin
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« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2021, 17:28:49 pm »

I think as well that the Trust board needs to decide if they are happy for fans who are not members and who have been critical of the way they have operated to become part of this. I would hope that they will welcome all and that everyone can work together to make something happen. I would also suggest that it may be time to start talking to businessmen and money men to see if anybody has an interest in being involved with a league 2 club from a part ownership perspective.

I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.
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« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2021, 17:29:07 pm »

Hi MC, no you have me confused with someone else, I'm not on the board of the Trust and never have been.

Please believe me I WANTED KT to be successful, I was there when he came back, I was there at the end of season do and listen to his speech etc but it didn't take long to realise what KT is all about.

I am not sure why it is my fault asking honest questions about KT, it isn't me who had not delivered in any way shape or form for our club, it is KT.

I am just flabbergasted how and why so many fans defend KT & DC before him yet hold the Trust up to their actions time and time again.

I just want my team to at least try to be the best it can be, if we were 5 mins from a Man U or Arsenal and in a deprived part of the country I would hold my hands up and say it is almost impossible to compete, but we don't, we have a great catchment area, a great opportunity yet most of fans don't even see or understand that, let alone owners who live 4000+ miles away
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« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2021, 17:40:21 pm »

There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isn’t because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.
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« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2021, 17:44:58 pm »

There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isn’t because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.
Agree 100%
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« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2021, 17:54:57 pm »

I notice the new Wigan owners are returning the money raised by the supporters to keep things running.
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« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2021, 20:28:11 pm »

I notice the new Wigan owners are returning the money raised by the supporters to keep things running.
Classy, shame about our owners.
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« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2021, 20:29:20 pm »

There are 2 distinct groups on here. The first is pro Trust and supports its approach. The second is critical of the Trusts processes. The positive thing is that everyone agrees that a Supporters Trust is or should be an important part of the future, just some believe it needs to operate differently? Virtually everyone agrees that ideally things need to change if our club and football administration generally is to improve and evolve positively, so we are half way there. For this to happen these 2 groups within our support base simply must be brought together. No initiative for change will succeed whilst we are divided amongst ourselves. All this does is make any initiative weak, ineffective and more likely to fail.

As I have already said, the Trusts number one priority at this point has to be to unify the support base. It will only do that if it is prepared to change and evolve. The current approach is failing because of the ongoing division among the support base regarding the Trusts processes. The Trust has to be truly representative of the support base, and at the moment it isn’t because of the countless examples of division on here. Until the Trust board accept this as fact they will simply hand the initiative to the next chancer waiting in the wings to play fantasy football and massage their ego with our club? This is not a criticism, just a plea for common sense that if accepted may just make a difference to our club? Divide and almost certainly be conquered or unify and possibly succeed, you decide.
Great post Melly old boy.
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« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2021, 20:29:54 pm »

Agree 100%

I'm really please to hear that. Because it says exactly what I’ve been saying for the last few years.

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« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2021, 20:55:06 pm »

Something that was mentioned on here, about the "sticky" Trust section on this messageboard, all too sparsely populated over the past few years.....I have now posted in there!

Might be easier to post replies/responses/updates all in one place rather than populate many different threads with the answers to what are broadly the same questions!
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« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2021, 22:50:45 pm »

I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.

Regarding communication, why not use the website with links advertised on here?
I did it in three clicks earlier in this?
No one habitually visits the Trust website, a link or two on here would encourage people to 'have a look'.
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« Reply #159 on: May 05, 2021, 08:01:01 am »

I'm speaking as a Trust member here, I would like ALL NTFC fans to work together but surely if fans want an input on an organisation, it's not asking a lot for them to contribute  towards the general costs of running the said organisation, otherwise the said organisation cannot function.
     The Trust membership at £5 for 1 year up to £50 for life is, I think, good value. I've noticed that people have commented about communications from the Trust but, unless members complete a GDPR form the Trust cannot use their email, and a mailshot costs upwards of £500.
      It's a difficult question, I know in the past the Trust did consider free membership  for people who consent to receive everything electronically and I'm sure if enough people were interested they would look into it again. But if you want to be involved with an organisation 10p per week is not going to break anyone.
      I haven't been on the board for a year now but I can say that in the time I was on the board, the Trust were in regular contact with lots of local businessmen and the come back was usually favourable.

I fully agree with you GPC and as someone who has never joined the trust, it is my intention to now do that, because unless we all pull together on this nothing is ever going to change. I still think we need to get all supporters and some local businesses involved because it is the only way we progress if we all feel engaged.
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