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Data Based Approach

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Manwork04
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2021, 14:48:15 pm »

I dumbed it down a little for the uneducated reader (in all things IT ).
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2021, 14:52:08 pm »

I dumbed it down a little for the uneducated reader (in all things IT ).


Fair enough. Apologies if I spoke out of line.
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singcobb
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2021, 15:30:25 pm »

I am a little unsure of which KPIs they would use in the model. Billy Beane used for the initial stat for his players the OB% which is a very easy stat to work with as a base and then you can add on Hits, RBI, HR etc.
In football do you look at a defenders record and drill down to tackles won? And if you do is that based on minutes played, or a percentage of overall tackles?
For strikers is it a case of Goals Scored/Attempts, or Shots on targets/Total shots?
And I haven't got any idea what you could use for midfielders.
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2021, 16:52:34 pm »

I am a little unsure of which KPIs they would use in the model. Billy Beane used for the initial stat for his players the OB% which is a very easy stat to work with as a base and then you can add on Hits, RBI, HR etc.
In football do you look at a defenders record and drill down to tackles won? And if you do is that based on minutes played, or a percentage of overall tackles?
For strikers is it a case of Goals Scored/Attempts, or Shots on targets/Total shots?
And I haven't got any idea what you could use for midfielders.
what do OB% Hits RBI and HR all stand for Sing?
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singcobb
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2021, 17:26:02 pm »

what do OB% Hits RBI and HR all stand for Sing?

OB% On Base Percentage how many times the player has reached at least first base as percentage of the number of time they bat, Hits(how many times they hit and a base is run) RBI Runs Batted In(When the batter makes a hit which allows another player to score a run, HR Home Run(when the batter hits the ball over the boundary fence and scores a run(very rarely there is an in-field homer where that batter is able to run round all the bases without the ball going over the fence).
I don't know if you guessed, but I love Baseball.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 17:28:40 pm by singcobb » Report Spam   Logged
CJ
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2021, 19:13:27 pm »

OB% On Base Percentage how many times the player has reached at least first base as percentage of the number of time they bat, Hits(how many times they hit and a base is run) RBI Runs Batted In(When the batter makes a hit which allows another player to score a run, HR Home Run(when the batter hits the ball over the boundary fence and scores a run(very rarely there is an in-field homer where that batter is able to run round all the bases without the ball going over the fence).
I don't know if you guessed, but I love Baseball.
I do now! Thanks.
So like you, I'd liketo know what the likely football equivalents are.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2021, 22:19:31 pm »

I do now! Thanks.
So like you, I'd liketo know what the likely football equivalents are.
https://www.sportperformanceanalysis.com/article/performance-indicators-in-football
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2021, 22:31:29 pm »

Please can someone clear this up?

Is this pronounced Day-ta or Dar-ta?
Similarly is it Pass-ta or Pars-ta
How about Pass-tee or Pars-tee.
Don’t bother with Pastry, there’s only one way to say it apparently?

Please post your response under “Fcuking Australians can’t talk properly, it’s called English the clues in the name” and send it to John Brady at the club. This will prevent me from pulling my ears off if the subject comes up in post match interviews. Thank you.
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2021, 23:29:53 pm »

Cheers.
Largely what I thought it would be.
Hope there is still room for subjective analysis on the back of that.
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2021, 23:45:44 pm »

Good to know we are 10 years late to the party on this.
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2021, 06:26:58 am »

It's all becoming a computer game... Roll Eyes
But haven't clubs been using Football Manager for a while anyway?
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2021, 08:17:05 am »

It's all becoming a computer game... Roll Eyes
But haven't clubs been using Football Manager for a while anyway?


Sounds like we've been using Striker from the SNES instead.
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2021, 09:01:25 am »

How we managed to sign Oliver beats me. Obviously Gillingham had DBA in place by the time they signed Him!!!!
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« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2021, 10:20:00 am »

Please can someone clear this up?

Is this pronounced Day-ta or Dar-ta?
Similarly is it Pass-ta or Pars-ta
How about Pass-tee or Pars-tee.
Don’t bother with Pastry, there’s only one way to say it apparently?

Please post your response under “Fcuking Australians can’t talk properly, it’s called English the clues in the name” and send it to John Brady at the club. This will prevent me from pulling my ears off if the subject comes up in post match interviews. Thank you.

It's Day-ta.
I worked with Australians for years and the pronunciation of data and project used to drive me up the wall. Mind you some of the older ones did say them correctly.
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singcobb
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2021, 10:28:46 am »


There are far too many subjective aspects to that, you might as well use James Heneghan's player ratings.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2021, 10:45:43 am »

There are far too many subjective aspects to that, you might as well use James Heneghan's player ratings.
I disagree, there both quantitive and qualitative KPIs, it clearly sets out the quantitive ones e.g. km ran, number of shots, completed passes, assists etc. As long as the qualities ones are without unconscious bias and by the same team it should be fair?
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2021, 11:18:22 am »

Thanks for all the links guys and the interesting chat. I certainly got more than I bargained for when I kicked this one off!

My point though was at a much lower level (much like the football I’m going to watch next season!) ...
Is there any analytical approach on Gods green earth that would have pushed us towards signing on Edmundson and then playing him week in week out?
If there is then “buyer  beware”. If there isn’t, then yes please, can we have one!

This is fun though, combining 2 of my favourite things .. Cobblers and maths. If we could just link to colouring and quantum physics as well I’d be sorted!
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2021, 11:51:32 am »

Thanks for all the links guys and the interesting chat. I certainly got more than I bargained for when I kicked this one off!

My point though was at a much lower level (much like the football I’m going to watch next season!) ...
Is there any analytical approach on Gods green earth that would have pushed us towards signing on Edmundson and then playing him week in week out?
If there is then “buyer  beware”. If there isn’t, then yes please, can we have one!

This is fun though, combining 2 of my favourite things .. Cobblers and maths. If we could just link to colouring and quantum physics as well I’d be sorted!

Better examples might be Morton and Oliver; on the basis they bucked the trend the other way!
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singcobb
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2021, 12:30:25 pm »

I disagree, there both quantitive and qualitative KPIs, it clearly sets out the quantitive ones e.g. km ran, number of shots, completed passes, assists etc. As long as the qualities ones are without unconscious bias and by the same team it should be fair?
I am more of a binary advocate. Anything subjective for me brings in an element of error. For the subjective content to be without unconscious bias the same person would have to assess every player in the league. For me it is like reading the form book and then chosing a horse based on it's name.

Download the pdf file, it's a very interesting read.
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2021, 12:45:15 pm »

I am more of a binary advocate. Anything subjective for me brings in an element of error. For the subjective content to be without unconscious bias the same person would have to assess every player in the league. For me it is like reading the form book and then chosing a horse based on it's name.

Download the pdf file, it's a very interesting read.

How would a binary decision making based on player data work? If it was with decision trees - ie at each stage if the player passes the yes / no for fulfilling a certain criteria - then the parameters would still be decided by someone. You have to trust the person carrying out the analysis and their abilities to make fair reflections.

Also I believe football data analysts do indeed assess players against others playing in the same position across the league - see a nice example from twitter here https://twitter.com/HenshawAnalysis/status/1394936830886285313. I think the tools like Wyscout probably provide them as part of the package. Whilst we don't seem to have a full-time recruitment data person I'd be interested to know if the club had a paid subscription to something like Wyscout - questions would surely need asking if not!
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