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New Trust statement on club finances

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Zen Master
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« on: July 03, 2021, 11:48:47 am »

Another statement by the trust on club finances, 5USPORT money etc.

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/concerns-about-club-finances-and-transparency?fbclid=IwAR3i_hpxotuD29Hfgej2oFtGVhRtkwDzPFhEPh1TXtSz9bW3trjTjrYwOSE
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singcobb
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2021, 12:34:45 pm »

And the point of that is?
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2021, 12:44:21 pm »

A statement of the facts as The Trust see them.
But not being a financial person, what does it actually say apart from the club is still in debt, we don't really understand what happened during the Chinese interruption and we've seen the plans for the East Stand that is going to be built sometime in the future?
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2021, 12:51:06 pm »

I donít understand the observation ď To date, the owners have not converted any debt to equity, suggesting that they expect repayment of loan funds in full and having the legal right to do so on demand and without prior notice.Ē Where do the board of The Trust think the owners will get the money from. Perhaps the money tree behind the west stand or the sale of BAS to AC Milan? If the Trust board are going to make statements of that nature they need to quantify the risk to the club I.E state exactly which assets the owners are going to plunder to drum up that capital? Perhaps Iím a bit thick but itís a complete mystery to me?

Whilst we are at it for the sake of a balanced debate I have a question for The Trust board. Given their criticism of the owners, even when accounting for inflation can they name another owner in the history of the club who has put more capital into it, and if not please can they justify that criticism? Especially as they have once again launched yet another divisive campaign without consulting the membership they supposedly represent?
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2021, 12:59:36 pm »


Great work. Very interesting. Clarifies some matters I had raised here and now answered. Thank you.
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 13:50:19 pm »

They just love to keep stiring it up don't they? I'm sure ive read all that before as it's pretty much open for general consumption, what are they hoping to achieve now, apart from going against the Club yet again.
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 14:02:12 pm »

Personally I think, right or wrong itís just another dig at the motives of KT - it achieves nothing, says nothing that we didnít already know and the sentence mentioning not converting debt to equity states the obvious - at this stage in the (admittedly long drawn out) process do the trust or indeed any fans with an ounce of financial knowledge expect KT and DB to write off ďdebtĒ
Also mentioning they have now agreed to fund the West stand with their own money & shock horror it would increase the ďdebtĒ to £9-10 million - whilst Iím certainly not going to say Iím happy with KT & DB holding all the cards as ultimately no owner is going to buy the club and cover the debt so the options are they sell and write it off or put the company into administration and still lose their money - Iím at a loss to understand what the trust actually expect financially from an in situ owner.
This isnít an antitrust missive but I donít understand their objective here - my wish is simple KT and DB honour their commitment on completing the East stand, they get their land deal and either sell the club free of debt or continue as owners with a plan for further concrete development plans.
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2021, 14:04:11 pm »

They just love to keep stiring it up don't they? I'm sure ive read all that before as it's pretty much open for general consumption, what are they hoping to achieve now, apart from going against the Club yet again.
Oh dear KT you kind of asked for that to come out.
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2021, 14:05:18 pm »

I think there are a lot of questions for the club to answer.
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2021, 14:05:41 pm »

They just love to keep stiring it up don't they? I'm sure ive read all that before as it's pretty much open for general consumption, what are they hoping to achieve now, apart from going against the Club yet again.

I hadn't seen this before;

"The total amount paid for the two-stage purchase of Venturesí shares was £6,680,000" and the detail behind it.

Perhaps you had.
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2021, 14:06:40 pm »

Very interesting and very alarming. If they don't get an agreement with WNC the future is bleak. The chinese adventure remains a complete mystery.
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2021, 14:13:06 pm »

Personally I think, right or wrong itís just another dig at the motives of KT - it achieves nothing, says nothing that we didnít already know and the sentence mentioning not converting debt to equity states the obvious - at this stage in the (admittedly long drawn out) process do the trust or indeed any fans with an ounce of financial knowledge expect KT and DB to write off ďdebtĒ
Also mentioning they have now agreed to fund the West stand with their own money & shock horror it would increase the ďdebtĒ to £9-10 million - whilst Iím certainly not going to say Iím happy with KT & DB holding all the cards as ultimately no owner is going to buy the club and cover the debt so the options are they sell and write it off or put the company into administration and still lose their money - Iím at a loss to understand what the trust actually expect financially from an in situ owner.
This isnít an antitrust missive but I donít understand their objective here - my wish is simple KT and DB honour their commitment on completing the East stand, they get their land deal and either sell the club free of debt or continue as owners with a plan for further concrete development plans.
I think you need to read it again, £6.7m???
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2021, 14:29:00 pm »

And the point of that is?
To find the truth.
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2021, 15:02:56 pm »

To find the truth.

And just how is it going to do that? It says nothing that we didn't already know, it's just the Trust board again having another hissy fit because they have been kicked out of the sadnpit.
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2021, 15:04:30 pm »

I think there are a lot of questions for the club to answer.

 Grin  One rhetorical question and one that has been answered by the plans released 25th June?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2021, 15:06:59 pm »

Ok, so my understanding of the three main methods of how businesses are financed;

1. Share issue. Capital is raised to provide equity, and the shareholders are then paid dividends on any future profits posted. The value of these shares can go up or down, or be diluted by further share issues.

2. The business can obtain a loan from a lending institution and pay it back, plus interest, over a period. A business overdraft also comes into this category. Manchester United are probably the best example of this, and how much interest they have had to pay to furnish that debt is staggeringly high.

3. The owners self fund the initial set up or purchase (in this case £1) plus cover any trading losses. They are solely responsible for the capital provided. This is NTFC, and as the latest accounts show, it looks like the losses are c£6m+ since the takeover? Not ideal, but certainly not unusual in lower league professional football.

To all those looking to question motives, and dig for wrongdoing, as Melbourne has already pointed out, where is the pot of money going to come from within the club that KT & DB are going to get repaid by?

For those who think that the equity put in so far shouldn't be listed in the accounts as a directors loan, please let me know what you think it should be instead?

Any financial wrongdoing, especially on the scale that some are suggesting on here, would surely get picked up by auditors.

As already mentioned, it is the 5USports takeover and then withdrawal that the attention needs the spotlights on.

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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2021, 15:14:38 pm »

I think you need to read it again, £6.7m???

I'm certainly not disputing the "Chinese Deal" was never transparent nor disputing the club itself almost certainly gained no benefit but I still don't see the relevance in the current situation - lack of transparency yes but are you suggesting actual wrong doing - if so please explain
 
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2021, 15:18:40 pm »

I think there are a lot of questions for the club to answer.

I disagree -  if the club chooses not to there is not a single question they have any obligation to answer.

As always I will put in the rider that I am not blindly supporting KT and DB but I still don't understand what the trust hope to achieve that will benefit the club - perhaps other than the somewhat nebulous claim of sharing the fact s can someone explain please
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2021, 15:56:54 pm »

Can someone put the statement in to a dumbed down version for the general public to understand?

Whilst I don't doubt that a few will understand why (and what at) fingers are being pointed, does the Trust honestly think that the majority of the supporter base will even bother reading through that, let alone understand it?
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2021, 16:46:56 pm »

Rauldinho, thing it goes something like, .....we don't like what the Club are doing, we don't like the ownership,  we didn't like the employee's of the Club writing letters about us, so we will just make a statement of regurgitated facts and throw our toys out the pram for good measure.
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