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New Trust statement on club finances

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Author Topic: New Trust statement on club finances  (Read 23384 times)
Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #500 on: July 22, 2021, 23:19:00 pm »

Belle-de-Jour took the bulk of the payment from 5USports, a sum of £4.342m. Belle-De-Jour, being a British Virgin Islands registered company would pay no tax on this money.
KT and DB each received personally £1.189m for their share of NT Ventures

DB is an expat based in Dubai and as such pays no personal tax income as he meets the criteria to be classed as a tax resident. If he earned money in Dubai but was tax resident in the UK he would have a liability but not the other way round.

KT....well i'm not aware of which country he classes as his residence for tax purposes.

Bottom line is that the bulk of the money went offshore....theres no getting away from that Melly, and as a result it is not liable to taxation. Besides that.....B-D-J has now loaned NTFC the sum of £4.84m (according to the latest filed accounts)...... I wonder where they got that from!

2017 accounts showed no money loaned by BDJ to NTFC  (£0)
2018 accounts showed £2.563m loaned by BDJ to NTFC (£2.563m)
2019 accounts showed £1.745m loaned by BDJ to NTFC (cumulative £4.308m)
2020 accounts showed £532k loaned by BDJ to NTFC (cumulative £4.84m)
  my understanding was that you had to be resident in Dubai for a given period and meet a number of conditions to achieve personal tax free status but possible. Kelvin Thomas would come under US or possibly UK dependant on days residing in each, but would cop for personal liability either way. The fact the money was paid off shore is irrelevant. For example I have to declare my global income. It matters not one jot that the money may have been earned in the UK and stays in a UK bank account and has never seen Australia. It doesn’t matter where that money is, BVI or Timbuktu. Of course I can choose not to declare it, but given there are global transparency agreements between tax offices that’s a massive risk. All it would take would be 5U Sport to make a claim and KT would be screwed. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to me.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 05:24:53 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #501 on: July 22, 2021, 23:37:30 pm »

Well done MC.

What a shame that transparency is in such short supply on all fronts. It’s like choosing which disease you’d like to die from most.

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« Reply #502 on: July 22, 2021, 23:48:18 pm »

I should also point out that when any money over a certain amount gets transferred into my AU bank account from overseas there is a vehicle for the banks to report the transaction to the ATO. This is pretty much a global standard and is in place to combat money laundering. This off shore business is painted as some sort of get out of obligation free card but it doesn’t work on a personal basis. If you base a company in a country off shore then you can get around corporation tax liability, but unless you live there on a personal taxation level it’s fairly pointless these days.
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« Reply #503 on: July 23, 2021, 00:03:40 am »

I should also point out that when any money over a certain amount gets transferred into my AU bank account from overseas there is a vehicle for the banks to report the transaction to the ATO. This is pretty much a global standard and is in place to combat money laundering. This off shore business is painted as some sort of get out of obligation free card but it doesn’t work on a personal basis. If you base a company in a country off shore then you can get around corporation tax liability, but unless you live there on a personal taxation level it’s fairly pointless these days.

Do you believe that the same vehicle is in place on the British Virgin Isles? If a large amount of money came in from China who would report it to whom?

BDJ is wholly owned by David Bower.....the vast majority of the 5U money went to him directly or indirectly. Kelvin Thomas is a bit part player.

Still can't work out why the money went to BDJ though as at the time of the sale to 5U Northampton Town FC were majority owned by UK registered Northampton Town Ventures, who in turn were majority owned by UK registered Fantastical Limited.

Fantastical though registered no transactions in any financial year and filed dormant company accounts for the years in which the transactions are reported to have taken place.
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« Reply #504 on: July 23, 2021, 00:34:50 am »

Do you believe that the same vehicle is in place on the British Virgin Isles? If a large amount of money came in from China who would report it to whom?

BDJ is wholly owned by David Bower.....the vast majority of the 5U money went to him directly or indirectly. Kelvin Thomas is a bit part player.

Still can't work out why the money went to BDJ though as at the time of the sale to 5U Northampton Town FC were majority owned by UK registered Northampton Town Ventures, who in turn were majority owned by UK registered Fantastical Limited.

Fantastical though registered no transactions in any financial year and filed dormant company accounts for the years in which the transactions are reported to have taken place.
The point is GPC is that what goes on in the BVI is irrelevant. I have a legal obligation to declare global income on a personal level and if I don’t I am guilty of tax evasion. In my case if I subsequently transfer the money into my AU bank account then that is automatically reported to the ATO. They will then want to know where it came from and when I received it, and I better be squeaky clean. Additionally the ATO are free to contact the HMRC and due to the transparency agreement they will be told everything. My view is that in their shoes I would also be living with the risk that 5U Sport go public and I may be sitting there with an income I haven’t declared. I am then in the position of being on what has been described to me as "the roller coaster in hell". What you are saying is all possible GPC, I am just pointing out the flaws and risks as I see it with some of the claims. I also find it particularly annoying as from personal experience I know what a crock of sh1t these theories about dodging tax liability between countries can be.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 05:30:27 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #505 on: July 23, 2021, 08:06:55 am »

Do you believe that the same vehicle is in place on the British Virgin Isles? If a large amount of money came in from China who would report it to whom?

BDJ is wholly owned by David Bower.....the vast majority of the 5U money went to him directly or indirectly. Kelvin Thomas is a bit part player.

Still can't work out why the money went to BDJ though as at the time of the sale to 5U Northampton Town FC were majority owned by UK registered Northampton Town Ventures, who in turn were majority owned by UK registered Fantastical Limited.

Fantastical though registered no transactions in any financial year and filed dormant company accounts for the years in which the transactions are reported to have taken place.

GPC, it looks like you have got some very specific information to hand, and are concerned about how the monies have been received and moved around.

Report it to the HMRC and let them get on with investigating it if they see fit. Morally, your compass will then hopefully be reset. You will have done your job.

The chips will fall where they deserve to land, I'm sure.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 08:15:17 am by 1971cobbler » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #506 on: July 23, 2021, 08:15:31 am »

  my understanding was that you had to be resident in Dubai for a given period and meet a number of conditions to achieve personal tax free status but possible. Kelvin Thomas would come under US or possibly UK dependant on days residing in each, but would cop for personal liability either way. The fact the money was paid off shore is irrelevant. For example I have to declare my global income. It matters not one jot that the money may have been earned in the UK and stays in a UK bank account and has never seen Australia. It doesn’t matter where that money is, BVI or Timbuktu. Of course I can choose not to declare it, but given there are global transparency agreements between tax offices that’s a massive risk. All it would take would be 5U Sport to make a claim and KT would be screwed. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to me.

For someone who purports to be an international ty**** and cannot miss an opportunity to broadcast the fact, you really are quite dim. I guess your your Kojee Bear piggybank must be empty.
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« Reply #507 on: July 23, 2021, 08:30:05 am »

  my understanding was that you had to be resident in Dubai for a given period and meet a number of conditions to achieve personal tax free status but possible. Kelvin Thomas would come under US or possibly UK dependant on days residing in each, but would cop for personal liability either way. The fact the money was paid off shore is irrelevant. For example I have to declare my global income. It matters not one jot that the money may have been earned in the UK and stays in a UK bank account and has never seen Australia. It doesn’t matter where that money is, BVI or Timbuktu. Of course I can choose not to declare it, but given there are global transparency agreements between tax offices that’s a massive risk. All it would take would be 5U Sport to make a claim and KT would be screwed. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Wonder how long DB has been in Dubai and what his residency status is? From what you suggest, that will make quite a large difference to the overall picture.
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« Reply #508 on: July 23, 2021, 08:35:51 am »

For someone who purports to be an international ty**** and cannot miss an opportunity to broadcast the fact, you really are quite dim. I guess your your Kojee Bear piggybank must be empty.
As someone who has no knowledge of how international money transfers, tax, etc works, MC posts are interesting, but potentially only one side / perspective. I assume from your post you have experience to the contrary, could you please share so that we could have a balanced view / balanced inputs?
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« Reply #509 on: July 23, 2021, 08:40:12 am »

  my understanding was that you had to be resident in Dubai for a given period and meet a number of conditions to achieve personal tax free status but possible. Kelvin Thomas would come under US or possibly UK dependant on days residing in each, but would cop for personal liability either way. The fact the money was paid off shore is irrelevant. For example I have to declare my global income. It matters not one jot that the money may have been earned in the UK and stays in a UK bank account and has never seen Australia. It doesn’t matter where that money is, BVI or Timbuktu. Of course I can choose not to declare it, but given there are global transparency agreements between tax offices that’s a massive risk. All it would take would be 5U Sport to make a claim and KT would be screwed. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to me.
So why would the majority of the money be paid into the BVI?
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« Reply #510 on: July 23, 2021, 08:43:27 am »

So why would the majority of the money be paid into the BVI?
Is the answer, because he goes there a lot on holiday?
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« Reply #511 on: July 23, 2021, 09:07:31 am »

Money from other clubs never used for its purpose
10k in a carrier bag
Accounts not submitted on time
Money from the Chinese
Off shore accounts
Bushey boys
Houses all over the place
Party donations
Secret meetings all around

Feel free to add anything I’ve missed….

They’re all at it…….  Grin Grin

“You were only supposed to blow the bleeding doors off”.

**** EM ALL
**** EM ALL
THE TRUST THE CLUB ET ALL

WE ARE THE COBBLERS AND WE ARE THE BEST
WE ARE THE COBBLERS SO **** ALL THE REST

No good deed goes unpunished.. 😀😀


« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 09:11:47 am by Terryfenwickatemyhamster » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #512 on: July 23, 2021, 09:21:46 am »

Thanks BOTN, you are the first one to ever reply and actually try to explain what KT has done for my football club. My replies, which I don't expect you will like are above.

To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.

On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.


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« Reply #513 on: July 23, 2021, 09:42:26 am »

To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.

On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.




Reading back on GPCs posts yesterday, I think it is being suggested that DB personally massively benefitted from the Chinese, but has then loaded an identical amount of debt onto the club over three financial years (I assume without the money actually being spent by NTFC)?

So does that qualify for tax evasion if true / remotely possible to do?

Would have been picked up by the clubs auditors when checking the accounts I would have thought, but you never know?

If that is indeed the scenario, it does affect the club?

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« Reply #514 on: July 23, 2021, 09:43:50 am »

Belle-de-Jour took the bulk of the payment from 5USports, a sum of £4.342m. Belle-De-Jour, being a British Virgin Islands registered company would pay no tax on this money.
KT and DB each received personally £1.189m for their share of NT Ventures

GPC, please could you share your source for this info? Not suggesting it isn't accurate, would just like to take a look myself.
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« Reply #515 on: July 23, 2021, 09:51:48 am »

To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.

On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.



[/quoteIf KT did make the child walk again, who do you think he would blame for the child falling out of the wheelchair?
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« Reply #516 on: July 23, 2021, 09:53:43 am »

To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.

On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.



Mate that’s a ridiculous statement, they have loaded the club with a massive debt, talk about cake and eat it!
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« Reply #517 on: July 23, 2021, 10:00:54 am »

Reading back on GPCs posts yesterday, I think it is being suggested that DB personally massively benefitted from the Chinese, but has then loaded an identical amount of debt onto the club over three financial years (I assume without the money actually being spent by NTFC)?

So does that qualify for tax evasion if true / remotely possible to do?

Would have been picked up by the clubs auditors when checking the accounts I would have thought, but you never know?

If that is indeed the scenario, it does affect the club?



I don't think the two are directly related. 5U bought the shares in the club from KT and DB (with whatever shell companies involved along the way) so that is their money. If the money they've "loaned" the club is from that pot or from elsewhere is a bit of a moot point.

It's still unclear if the money from 5U was kept by any of the parties though. From the Trust statement the other week:

Quote
March 2018

KT announced that 5USports had departed Ventures and NTFC as directors and that the shares had been “reacquired”, owing to the failure of 5USports to come up with working capital for the football club. Unannounced, ultimate control and ownership of NTFC was transferred to Belle de Jour Ltd.

It is not known whether a payment was made, and if so the amount paid, for reacquiring the shares.

The club/KT&DB could clear this up very easily, but frankly I don't see why they should as they are under no obligation to publicly discuss their personal finances.
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« Reply #518 on: July 23, 2021, 10:06:54 am »

BOTN - this is where I'm at.
I made the post below a couple of weeks ago and didn't see any responses that moved the dial. In fact GPC's post from yesterday is the first time I've read anything that even half addresses any of these points which is why I asked for his source so I could try to do some digging myself.

1. None of us know how much of the agreed consideration KT & DB actually received for their shares and/or how much of that was cash and/or how much of it was returned when the whole 5USport thing fell over. Correct me if I'm wrong?
2. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, that is between them and 5USport. You & I may not like it, but that alone doesn't mean anyone has done anything wrong
3. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, they have to-date ploughed £6-7m into the club's running costs, so they are at best back where they started and at worst £6-7m down on the deal as things stand


To clarify, I am not on either side in this debate but I'm getting so tired of the constant inference that someone is up to something at worst illegal, at best very shady, with no reliable evidence to back it up.
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« Reply #519 on: July 23, 2021, 10:08:26 am »

BOTN, thats the level you have stooped to to defend our owners - disabled children WOW

Re our club / the owners - we are £7m in debt, back in League 2 without a good squad, about to lose 20m land asset & half the running track, and the ground falling apart

Do you think it is acceptable that they had plans for over 2 years on the East but did not show or mention them to the fans UNTIL some not good news comes out about them receiving £6.8m for selling the club, again without telling anyone?

You really think that is acceptable from the owners of your football club?

Also please reply to my answers from your support of our owners previously
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