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New Trust statement on club finances

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Author Topic: New Trust statement on club finances  (Read 17422 times)
CJ
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« Reply #680 on: July 26, 2021, 16:36:16 pm »

There are no masses. Just a few sorts who caught a minnow and talked it up as a whale. As I said.. Idle hands and minds.
Said he with by far the greatest post count on any thread relevant to this subject.
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CJ
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« Reply #681 on: July 26, 2021, 16:42:20 pm »

CJ, following on from your earlier posts about salaries etc page 2 of the latest filed tax return puts the figure at a shade under 4 million. Page 12 claims there are 287 employees at the club. As they are abbreviated returns which is all that is required there is not much detail. I would imagine the 4 million figure would include paying off managers contracts such as JFH if it fell into the relevant time frame?

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/s6JjcgV-LTRLQ6n8Z2veiPQIcH2e-ZrG35bvagJkViM/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3H6QQL5WV%2F20210726%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210726T152433Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjED4aCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQCWjUU21cxp0dDho4kvIONQgxdIasddUQtKq9tVw0XJRQIhAOJClAE7eDczOC4ytDAil2aiPPPW1iUxDOFTa%2Fh8063xKvoDCEcQAxoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgyAM63wYDsmJdmUmDYq1wO2Y1nhLGiGSgXv5uQ2VW4pZfw5zbe7gRtjPSnmpHUQOpYSScx6wzgwejtvtKwMw9%2BWGv6usnF%2BT5dfO2edXZKFmL6BBkdjGRXWB18yplmYDehfk%2Fd8s4P9vblajXGJvVeOQnuUD%2FPnFJeibMttezShMfd0SVA7tzRISIrV43pa7F3bq%2BxGXuGGqHdHPSCuw50yF%2F6TFGBTKlvThE%2BvGoFi7XemLIynTxq6bOjyXWxW2dJl3mEjqXcJstESC%2FYbfo44qkcKoKVJc%2BSRivXXYHoNg8iiw8Ea18eAf0XhyyHKG4CotrMguMWnE2gUZG4d6eTNV85XsBZXzwlDawKdeU0eFswSpM6Ux6AhF6zKACE%2B9SZ5USUg%2Fk%2FZKjTpie87BrGjpnMZknuHsjcqt%2FozYekaROqjfN3dPEKljrLjEos31FwyPQkrjPtP4QIZPkYmvSo%2FEkm3cwEN8UDt3KGidFRYnMj1IfjB3FbkFXfCN%2Fnqs8jCeLuPe%2FjXCBGBFfG0x7fEYWZnWlEJK3N8RV%2FUnaW2Qeden0cR33PuN3BDcmXfVM9fyzPdsgQ1%2FAg%2B9kB15X8hPVtkzkgstNqx9N8fW9ljmh5IimGj17KumsdHfrTSOeCSCOkPL1Ewp%2Fv6hwY6pAFMWMCGnpnNvfyyUp3e5RWu7AUeTcX367GLzfBy8rI9H0dYN5Wp2uJm4JX6isCtmWRgvjwh9dcKu9MTMzprT2HGueaq%2FULTlOqHbL8O8ckivQb0ZaoXcw2TBjnEoeAuZhD3uHLoVbYaEISD4adWzuK63lroZB9qr9FgptkdrS%2FlCYCj5e7ix%2B9hyVCjpknyHjO1OOmt%2BauNIJ11M5RkCbZ3bF%2BhcA%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=79e7c925a2dd4d6bc608a82d78f22df81aadcb4180957bf45e781e0f6caaabbb
Sounds interesting Melbourne but I can't open the file on my phone. Maybe that's my phone though?
I heard, from the back row of the North stand during the time frame of Jimmy's tenure, that he was on 17k a week. Information (just like that released by the club and the Trust) that I considered and came to the conclusion without any help from others, that I couldn't believe. I could only come up with the following reason for being told Jimbo was on that amount, and that was that my informant was mixing up weeks with months or another more appropriate payment period.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 16:44:53 pm by CJ » Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #682 on: July 26, 2021, 16:45:34 pm »

Sounds interesting Melbourne but I can't open the file on my phone. Maybe that's my phone though?
I heard, from the back row of the North stand during the time frame of Jimmy's tenure, that he was on 17k a week. Information (just like that released by the club and the Trust) that I considered and came to the conclusion without any help from others, that I didn't believe. I could only come up with the following reason for being told Jimbo was on that amount, and that was that my informant was mixing up weeks with months or another more appropriate payment period.
Try this mate, type Northampton Town Football club into the search bar click on the link and then filing history. The latest accounts are the second file down.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.128060228.956663996.1627264571-934789128.1627264571
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« Reply #683 on: July 26, 2021, 16:51:04 pm »

Said he with by far the greatest post count on any thread relevant to this subject.

WellÖ. Thatís total desperate bolloxs..   Grin Grin.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #684 on: July 26, 2021, 16:57:31 pm »

Try this mate, type Northampton Town Football club into the search bar click on the link and then filing history. The latest accounts are the second file down.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.128060228.956663996.1627264571-934789128.1627264571

If you go through the filing history of the Cardozas they donít submit any actual figures at all so itís difficult to draw comparisons on any level.
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« Reply #685 on: July 26, 2021, 17:18:01 pm »

If you go through the filing history of the Cardozas they donít submit any actual figures at all so itís difficult to draw comparisons on any level.
Nothing between them, both talked the talk, both wracked up a massive debt, both will leave us in the shÔt and both dreaming of big land deals.
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« Reply #686 on: July 26, 2021, 17:20:52 pm »

Said he with by far the greatest post count on any thread relevant to this subject.
Spot on.
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CJ
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« Reply #687 on: July 26, 2021, 17:21:35 pm »

If you go through the filing history of the Cardozas they donít submit any actual figures at all so itís difficult to draw comparisons on any level.
I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry
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« Reply #688 on: July 26, 2021, 17:26:40 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry
Honestly mate absolutely no idea. The trouble with the Deloitte report as I stated and the abbreviated accounts as you have discovered/pointed out is that it gives you a generalised basic snap shot. Youíre not going to get that kind of detail anytime soon I would imagine.
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CJ
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« Reply #689 on: July 26, 2021, 17:34:35 pm »

Honestly mate absolutely no idea. The trouble with the Deloitte report as I stated and the abbreviated accounts as you have discovered/pointed out is that it gives you a generalised basic snap shot. Youíre not going to get that kind of detail anytime soon I would imagine.
Probably not, hence all the supposition.
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« Reply #690 on: July 26, 2021, 17:35:16 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry
Found this.

https://www.888sport.com/blog/league-two-salary

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/leaked-report-reveals-how-much-18169396
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CJ
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« Reply #691 on: July 26, 2021, 17:36:19 pm »

WellÖ. Thatís total desperate bolloxs..   Grin Grin.
I was keeping it polite  Wink
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #692 on: July 26, 2021, 17:47:14 pm »

So using the figures of clubs that responded (14 out of 24 in league 2) it costs £2.5 million to maintain an average squad of 22 in league 2 plus bonuses and £5.5 million plus bonuses in League 1. According to this report anyway and bearing in mind not all clubs responded.
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« Reply #693 on: July 26, 2021, 17:54:54 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry

It's impossible to break out the playing side without some huge assumptions. I just had a crack and didn't get anywhere close to sensible. Far more likely to see something accurate on articles like those posted by Melly above but even then you're not getting a complete picture.

As for the 287, I'm sure it's accurate. Would imagine the bulk of it is matchday staff working a very small number of hours - if they're agency I start to struggle with how it gets there.

The buckets I can think of are:

Playing staff
Coaching staff - first team, youth/academy, ladies, other (e.g. disability sides)
Support staff (e.g. kit man)
Medical staff
Recruitment team
Ground staff

Senior management (non-playing) - CEO, Secretary, Commercial Director etc.
Ticket Office
Club Shop
Media (Gareth W +)
Community
Chief Creative Accountant

Matchday catering
Stewards & security
Other matchday roles
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« Reply #694 on: July 26, 2021, 17:56:46 pm »

So using the figures of clubs that responded (14 out of 24 in league 2) it costs £2.5 million to maintain an average squad of 22 in league 2 plus bonuses and £5.5 million plus bonuses in League 1. According to this report anyway and bearing in mind not all clubs responded.
One final rough calculation, if their are 287 members of staff and and 22 players cost 2.5 million then 1.5 million is spread over 265 staff. 1.5 million divided by 265 divided by 12 means the average monthly salary of the remaining staff is £471 per month. This suggests the overwhelming majority of staff are part time match day employees I would think?
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« Reply #695 on: July 26, 2021, 18:15:43 pm »

Bare in mind, wages were capped at £2.5 million in League One and £1.5 million League two for a while. While this wasn't applied retrospectively, and there were definitely big spenders and fallen giants well above this, I'd imagine the limit would be a target that a fair few clubs were under each year.
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CJ
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« Reply #696 on: July 26, 2021, 19:03:52 pm »

It's impossible to break out the playing side without some huge assumptions. I just had a crack and didn't get anywhere close to sensible. Far more likely to see something accurate on articles like those posted by Melly above but even then you're not getting a complete picture.

As for the 287, I'm sure it's accurate. Would imagine the bulk of it is matchday staff working a very small number of hours - if they're agency I start to struggle with how it gets there.

The buckets I can think of are:

Playing staff
Coaching staff - first team, youth/academy, ladies, other (e.g. disability sides)
Support staff (e.g. kit man)
Medical staff
Recruitment team
Ground staff

Senior management (non-playing) - CEO, Secretary, Commercial Director etc.
Ticket Office
Club Shop
Media (Gareth W +)
Community
Chief Creative Accountant

Matchday catering
Stewards & security
Other matchday roles

I agree the employment numbers will be provable, right down to every tea boy and briefly employed Chinaman in the name of education. Don't we also employ online scouts or is that lads who represent us at online games in the name of NTFC?
It would be interesting to compare club turnover and numbers of employees against one of the top six premier sides. Economies of scale would no doubt kick in.
I'm struggling to get much beyond 150 though.
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« Reply #697 on: July 26, 2021, 21:19:40 pm »

Would be useful to know how many of the "employees" were full-time. Have been looking at a number of other clubs accounts, I highlighted last week Exeters who listed 214 staff, Colchester are 255, whereas MK Dons who submit full accounts only have 123 staff ( 1 director, 82 full time playing, training and management, and 41 admin and commercial) They do however have an additional 135 temporary matchday staff.
With the full time and temporary that still only comes to 257 though against our 287.
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« Reply #698 on: July 26, 2021, 21:26:59 pm »

No disrespect to anyone and I realise a few people have wasted a fair bit of time to come up with not a lot of anything very interesting, but this thread has degenerated into something thatís making me lose the will to live.
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« Reply #699 on: July 26, 2021, 21:28:01 pm »

I only listed out the various staff categories I could think of to show that if you put a bit of thought into most of these things (i.e. 287 is loads of staff, something must be off), they're really not that exciting. How wrong I was!
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