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New Trust statement on club finances

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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2021, 20:39:57 pm »

Wow, it has all kicked off. What the hell is going on at NTFC?
A minority of supporters want a change of ownership for reasons unclear from where I’m sitting?
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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2021, 21:06:24 pm »

Let’s wake up folks
An 8,000 seater stadium

Mind blowing !!!

Is there actually a need to redevelop if it’s only going to be 8000 capacity




Come on Shoey - no one thinks completion of the east stand in any way constitutes significant redevelopment- but any progress starts with one step and that first step has to be completing that carbuncle.
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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2021, 21:12:54 pm »

So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?

A perfect summary, I could not have put it better myself.
Unfortunately, The Trust Board lose even more credibility every time they open their collective mouth(s).
Someone on the Board must realise this, or is this why certain individuals have left?
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2021, 21:27:47 pm »

Come on Shoey - no one thinks completion of the east stand in any way constitutes significant redevelopment- but any progress starts with one step and that first step has to be completing that carbuncle.
I do agree but my main thrust was that the redevelopment plans are ten years old and imo outdated.

Let’s be honest if as a club going forwards the limit of our ambitions is to dream of an 8,000 seater stadium that is really embarrassing.

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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2021, 22:54:49 pm »

So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?

Never has a nail been hit more accurately and firmer on the head than MC's comments.
 
Is the the extent of the revelation we have been waiting on.

Pathetic 😂😂😂😂😂



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« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2021, 23:21:43 pm »

Oh my god, the Trust are trying to tell you that the club is VERY close to going to the wall and still you slag them off!
KT shows you some fûcking CGIs he had for the last couple of years and you think he’s the fûckin messiah.
The enabling land around Sixseats is the only way in the short term that we could expand the ground and get 24/7 revenue from conference facilities and a hotel.
You lot would be happy for the current owners to bodge up the hideous east stand, up our debt to £10m, pay it off with the land profit and the fuçk off with what’s left?
Unbelievable
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« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2021, 01:13:51 am »

To reiterate, The Trust are entitled to scrutinise the actions of the owners and ask challenging questions. However, they must also accept that supporters and their own membership are entitled to apply those same standards to them. Particularly when it’s is believed by those members they act without reasonable engagement and consultation in contradiction to their own mission statement. Although this can apparently be changed at the behest of The Board also without proving the majority endorsement of its membership. Therefore expect this rather awkward situation to be addressed in the very near future. All members are equal, but some are more equal than others apparently.
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« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2021, 01:48:49 am »

Whether it was promised by this regime or the last, the fact remains that the land was supposed to be the clubs golden egg...... does anyone actually think that's going to be the case with what is currently proposed?

If only the Football Club was about the football, instead of the Football Club playing second fiddle to some land deal.
GPC, your not daft and I respect your views. In an ideal world what is your personal view on how this should go?

What standard should the stand be finished to?

How should the debt be repaid?

What financial conditions should the club operate under if it is to not be in debt to the owners, operate within its means?

What would be the acceptable circumstances in which the owners embark on an exit strategy, because I don’t believe for one minute you think it’s a pound?

If the owners have pocketed moneys from the 5U Sport deal surreptitiously, what reasonable explanation could there be for that not being challenged in the courts? Otherwise it either got paid back or was never paid in the first place and what would be the issue with either of those outcomes?

As I have stated even when accounting for inflation, I suspect the owners have put more capital into the club than any owners in the club’s history. Given this comparative measure, is the amount of criticism really justified?

I accept you are in a challenging position also being on the Board, so if you feel you don’t want to answer at this point then fair enough. I only ask for the sake of debate and don’t intend to try and put you in an awkward situation.
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« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2021, 05:54:56 am »

Oh my god, the Trust are trying to tell you that the club is VERY close to going to the wall and still you slag them off!
KT shows you some fûcking CGIs he had for the last couple of years and you think he’s the fûckin messiah.
The enabling land around Sixseats is the only way in the short term that we could expand the ground and get 24/7 revenue from conference facilities and a hotel.
You lot would be happy for the current owners to bodge up the hideous east stand, up our debt to £10m, pay it off with the land profit and the fuçk off with what’s left?
Unbelievable

5471 relentless anti KT/DB posts yet NOT ONE post giving a tangible alternative to the current situation. Try living in the real world and not hide behind a keyboard with only theory!

Yes I want a 14,00 seater Stadium with Executive Boxes, Conference Centre, Hotel and our own training ground BUT I do not know how to finance it without a giant sugar Daddy (or Mummy).

I won't hold my breath waiting for your tangible alternative, welcome to the real world!
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« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2021, 06:10:17 am »


You lot would be happy for the current owners to bodge up the hideous east stand, up our debt to £10m, pay it off with the land profit and the fuçk off with what’s left?
Unbelievable

Yes, frankly!  

KT and DB have been pretty open on this being their objective since the day they arrived. They aren't here to be sugar daddies. If your scenario came to pass, the club would have better facilities and be debt free, KT and DB would make their money and we'd presumably be sold on to another owner. God knows who that will be, but a debt free club would be a reasonably attractive proposition to someone, for better or for worse.

That's why I don't understand the Trust's negativity about the land deal. They clearly don't like the current owners and would appear to want them out. The best way to achieve that is for the land deal to take place! If it doesn't, then there's nothing to keep KT and DB here, and if they pull the plug then THAT'S when we really will be all the way up shìt creek without a boat, never mind a paddle.

The Trust's animosity towards our owners seems to extend so far they actively don't want them to make a profit from their time here and would appear to think that the club is entitled to trouser the entire profit from any deal.

The irony is their current damaging course of action could well hand them the most pyrrhic of pyrrhic victories.
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« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2021, 07:02:13 am »

Oh my god, the Trust are trying to tell you that the club is VERY close to going to the wall and still you slag them off!
KT shows you some fûcking CGIs he had for the last couple of years and you think he’s the fûckin messiah.
The enabling land around Sixseats is the only way in the short term that we could expand the ground and get 24/7 revenue from conference facilities and a hotel.
You lot would be happy for the current owners to bodge up the hideous east stand, up our debt to £10m, pay it off with the land profit and the fuçk off with what’s left?
Unbelievable

Hopefully your hangover isn't too severe...  Cool
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« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2021, 07:43:48 am »

I cant believe that most on here glibly accept that we have to lose a million quid a year just to exist as a league two club with nothing tangible to show for it, on or off the pitch.
Is this what you were expecting when the owners came riding over the horizon?
Now, the position being, the club strikes a contract with the council or there is every possibility of the club going under.
Isnt that the larger point that seems to have been forgotten about?
If the debt is erased by a once (twice?) in a life time deal with the council, what is going to happen in another 6 years when we are another 6 million down?
200 odd extra seats and a few posh boxes will not make much of a hole in that.
Prudent management? I think not.
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« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2021, 07:50:46 am »

I cant believe that most on here glibly accept that we have to lose a million quid a year just to exist as a league two club with nothing tangible to show for it, on or off the pitch.
Is this what you were expecting when the owners came riding over the horizon?
Now, the position being, the club strikes a contract with the council or there is every possibility of the club going under.
Isnt that the larger point that seems to have been forgotten about?
If the debt is erased by a once (twice?) in a life time deal with the council, what is going to happen in another 6 years when we are another 6 million down?
200 odd extra seats and a few posh boxes will not make much of a hole in that.
Prudent management? I think not.

Frankly CJ that’s why the investor/owner model doesn’t work very well. At some point invariably the assets are sold to get a return. That being said I still feel the current owners are doing as much as could be expected from that ownership model. However, in an ideal world I believe that needs to change, but it has to be across the board and not just with a few clubs in isolation which will be immensely difficult to achieve. All my own personal opinion obviously.
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« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2021, 07:51:30 am »

Hopefully your hangover isn't too severe...  Cool

😄 quality
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« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2021, 08:06:06 am »

Frankly CJ that’s why the investor/owner model doesn’t work very well. At some point invariably the assets are sold to get a return. That being said I still feel the current owners are doing as much as could be expected from that ownership model. However, in an ideal world I believe that needs to change, but it has to be across the board and not just with a few clubs in isolation which will be immensely difficult to achieve. All my own personal opinion obviously.
For doing as much as could be expected do you mean putting 6 million debt onto the club? You have said they will probably have invested more than any previous incumbent, is that a good thing? The chairman has previous experience in the field, do you agree that his high stakes poker game with the council was the only way to go?
The club was debfree when the owners took over, and had been run at breakeven cost under Cardoza for some of their tenure, I believe, prior to the loan money disappearing.
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« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2021, 08:47:10 am »

For doing as much as could be expected do you mean putting 6 million debt onto the club? You have said they will probably have invested more than any previous incumbent, is that a good thing? The chairman has previous experience in the field, do you agree that his high stakes poker game with the council was the only way to go?
The club was debfree when the owners took over, and had been run at breakeven cost under Cardoza for some of their tenure, I believe, prior to the loan money disappearing.
According to the representations made in court the I believe the Cardozas claimed they were owed millions in loans they made to the club, and this formed part of their defence? Therefore the circumstances were pretty much the same as now. It’s been losing money and incurring debt at the same rate as pretty much every other league club. This is why football is facing financial Armageddon. So no it’s not a good thing, but they are only operating in a market that has been allowed to evolve by the EFL and government. It has to change, but I maintain as investors go we could do a lot lot worse.
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« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2021, 08:55:29 am »

It is difficult to see a happy ending to all this. I think the best case is that they get the land, finish the stand (to generate a bit more income), clear their 'debt' and hang around a bit until they find a buyer. They know if they disappear without this then they can kiss goodbye to their money. Talk of us going to the wall is never going to recoup their money. What assets are they going to sell, the portakabins and kitchen sink?
At least with the stand and limited additional income we may be able to run on an even keel, although it'll still be in the little league.
When we move into Sixfields the land was never touted as some golden egg to catapult the club. It became a lure for property investors, demonstrated by Cardoza and now KT. Someone is going to make money from it and I highly doubt it will be as much as it was in the past, or what they thought. There is clearly also an underlying resentment of any 'outsider' making personal gain that doesn't go directly to the club, which is understandable but aspirational. Who knows what goes on within the council but I am sure there is still a hangover today from the loan.
If this falls through we'll be out with buckets again and I don't necessarily hold the view that we'd be immediately to the wall because we have to repay KT and co. Those that do think that would surely rather they get the land and make a buck to get us back on level terms? If anyone thinks they'll get £100m from the land and sign some £1m players need to smell the coffee!
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« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2021, 09:32:45 am »

PLEASE CAN THE TRUST CLEARLY EXPLAIN THEIR ALTERNATIVE TO KT/DB ONCE & FOR ALL?

If you don't have one, what is the point in continually harrasing the current owners?

No one else came calling when Cardoza's were forced out...
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« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2021, 09:39:46 am »

According to the representations made in court the I believe the Cardozas claimed they were owed millions in loans they made to the club, and this formed part of their defence? Therefore the circumstances were pretty much the same as now. It’s being losing money and incurring debt at the same rate as pretty much every other league club. This is why football is facing financial Armageddon. So no it’s not a good thing, but they are only operating in a market that has been allowed to evolve by the EFL and government. It has to change, but I maintain as investors go we could do a lot lot worse.
They were yes Melly, but I dont think I'm wrong in saying that once they'd stopped splashing the cash, the Cardozas ran the club at breakeven or at a minimal loss (why would anyone who knew them think anything else?!)
GPC, correct me if I'm wrong?
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« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2021, 09:44:41 am »

They were yes Melly, but I dont think I'm wrong in saying that once they'd stopped splashing the cash, the Cardozas ran the club at breakeven or at a minimal loss (why would anyone who knew them think anything else?!)
GPC, correct me if I'm wrong?
There was still the outstanding debt though CJ and they stopped splashing because they had run out of cash, hence the hullabaloo. At least that’s my interpretation anyway?
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