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New Trust statement on club finances

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« Reply #140 on: July 05, 2021, 12:06:33 pm »

The shareholders of what? The football Club? The owning company (NT Ventures) of the football club? The owning company (Fantastical Limited) of the owning company (NT Ventures) of the football club?

Hang on a second, you haven't mentioned Belle de Jour and without doubt that is the sexiest of all.
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« Reply #141 on: July 05, 2021, 12:12:12 pm »

Wrong, no it doesn't.

They got money for their shares. Let me make it simple. I buy a car from you, it is up to me wether I put petrol in it or not, if I cannot I have made a mistake and decide to sell it back to you, it is then up to you what to do with the car, you can finish the paint job, install a turbo, but it is up to you because you own the car.
The point I am making is that it is reported that KT and DB received £6.7m, this was as a direct result of their relationship with NTFC.
As reported there is no evidence of this being repaid.
So as reported they are £6.7m better off BUT still want the £10m post stand debt repaid.  On that basis how much of the acquired profit as a result of the land development do you think will remain of benefit to the club if there is no pre agreed arrangement? They are business men with the objective or profiting out the club. We are fans looking to protect our club and I’m not sure those objectives align without clearly defined boundaries.
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« Reply #142 on: July 05, 2021, 12:12:52 pm »

Please god can we not pull together and at least have a look at doing something progressive. The owners are getting their arse kicked, the Trust board are getting their arse kicked, the council…arse kicked, the various supporters groups are kicking each other up the arse. FFS stop, we may never get this chance again. Sixfields was f***ed up during the initial build. The first go at ground redevelopment was a disaster. Now we are close to fcuking it up again, at what point in our future is someone going to get it right?According to GPC the land is worth fcuk all, according to Manny it’s worth 100 million, according to Tel its somewhere in between. Instead of squabbling like a bunch of school kids over their crayons let’s find out the true picture and at least have a go at investigating something dynamic and different. Step forward the Trust board. Stop fcuking spitting poison and get on with getting the best for the club, and that ain’t kicking the sh1t out of the current owners, it’s a waste of time. It’s working with all parties to try and build something that will support the club long after KT and DB have gone back to Florida, Dubai or wherever it is they came from. Focus on what you can do, not hitting your head against the proverbial brick wall because your giving yourself and everyone else a headache. It cant be this hard can it, let’s not be sitting here in 10 years time saying “coulda, woulda, shoulda”.
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« Reply #143 on: July 05, 2021, 12:20:58 pm »

The point I am making is that it is reported that KT and DB received £6.7m, this was as a direct result of their relationship with NTFC.
As reported there is no evidence of this being repaid.
So as reported they are £6.7m better off BUT still want the £10m post stand debt repaid.  On that basis how much of the acquired profit as a result of the land development do you think will remain of benefit to the club if there is no pre agreed arrangement? They are business men with the objective or profiting out the club. We are fans looking to protect our club and I’m not sure those objectives align without clearly defined boundaries.

Again. They got the money for shares. It is their money, they are under no obligation to put that money into the club as a gift.
Just to clarify again. DB and KT own a company that owns the majority shareholding in a football club that they have no real interest in and therefore are unlikely to hand over money without a way of recovering said money plus interest. I am pretty(OK I'm not really pretty) certain that should the land deal go through and they start reaping millions and money does flow into the club I would not be surprised if one of the first orders of business will be to repay the loans made by BDJ/NYV/FL.
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« Reply #144 on: July 05, 2021, 12:27:01 pm »

😂😂😂😂 I THINK THERE WAS AND THE TRUST HAVE EVIDENCE.
maybe you should take a breath and read what the trust have written, money was transferred to BDJ and over a million was transferred to KT and DB according to the Trust, totalling £6.7m again according to the trust’s statement. Now if that wasn’t true I think legal process would have started don’t you?

Generally speaking thinking something doesn't really add up to case for the prosecution - if the trust have evidence of wrong doing bring it to the attention of the authorities - if not, its only relevance is someone might have made some money - actually even more irrelevant as I've tried to explain to you that sale and transfer of unlisted shares is very much a private matter between the buyer and the seller
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« Reply #145 on: July 05, 2021, 12:30:17 pm »

Ok, let's flip this one on its head?

If what you are saying is indeed true, and the Trust have proof of this, have they presented this to the relevant authorities?

If not,  why not?

On the specific topic of skullduggery or illegal activities, which seem to get hinted at, the point above is all that matters.
'If' anyone did have proof of anything criminal and failed to produce it, they are either involved or as guilty as those accused of it. If they know it and don't have specific proof you can still blow the whistle.
It is far, far too easy to post some loose rumour online before it is getting passed off as fact. You don't even have to go to the pub anymore!
Didn't a senior Trust member sign something off last time that should have been questioned at the time? I guess that won't be happening this time!

Granted, there are some blurred lines around what is morally right but I bet half of you still drink from Starbucks.

Judge Rinder must be quaking in his boots reading some of this.
My God we need the season to start.
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« Reply #146 on: July 05, 2021, 12:30:39 pm »

Fûck me too, the money still changed hands as reported in the Guardian newspaper.
KT and DB still received £6.7m, I really don’t get your point, KT and DB are the club.
Are they not pleading poverty and wracking up a soon to be £10m debt?

I will make it simple KT and DB = NTFC


Yep, correct, DB & KT = NTFC.

That doesn't mean their cash belongs to NTFC though, so any they invest in running costs are director loans as with any other privately funded business.

Whether NTFC as an entity will ever be in a position to pay that back remains to be seen.

Anyway, re my previous message to you, does the Trust have proof of illegal activities or not?

If they have, who have they reported it to?
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« Reply #147 on: July 05, 2021, 12:32:35 pm »

Again. They got the money for shares. It is their money, they are under no obligation to put that money into the club as a gift.
Just to clarify again. DB and KT own a company that owns the majority shareholding in a football club that they have no real interest in and therefore are unlikely to hand over money without a way of recovering said money plus interest. I am pretty(OK I'm not really pretty) certain that should the land deal go through and they start reaping millions and money does flow into the club I would not be surprised if one of the first orders of business will be to repay the loans made by BDJ/NYV/FL.

They got £4.3m for the shares.....recorded and accepted even by 5U.  They also got £1.1m each personally according to the Trust statement.

The 65% shareholding was held by Fantastical Limited....a UK registered company with the common directorship......but Fantastical didn't sell the shares....BDJ did.
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« Reply #148 on: July 05, 2021, 12:38:10 pm »

Please god can we not pull together and at least have a look at doing something progressive. The owners are getting their arse kicked, the Trust board are getting their arse kicked, the council…arse kicked, the various supporters groups are kicking each other up the arse. FFS stop, we may never get this chance again. Sixfields was **** up during the initial build. The first go at ground redevelopment was a disaster. Now we are close to fcuking it up again, at what point in our future is someone going to get it right?According to GPC the land is worth fcuk all, according to Manny it’s worth 100 million, according to Tel its somewhere in between. Instead of squabbling like a bunch of school kids over their crayons let’s find out the true picture and at least have a go at investigating something dynamic and different. Step forward the Trust board. Stop fcuking spitting poison and get on with getting the best for the club, and that ain’t kicking the sh1t out of the current owners, it’s a waste of time. It’s working with all parties to try and build something that will support the club long after KT and DB have gone back to Florida, Dubai or wherever it is they came from. Focus on what you can do, not hitting your head against the proverbial brick wall because your giving yourself and everyone else a headache. It cant be this hard can it, let’s not be sitting here in 10 years time saying “coulda, woulda, shoulda”.

And therein, the excellent response of a business owner and entrepreneur who has had enough of the 'email tennis'.

Great post Melly.  Smiley
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« Reply #149 on: July 05, 2021, 12:41:17 pm »

Please god can we not pull together and at least have a look at doing something progressive. The owners are getting their arse kicked, the Trust board are getting their arse kicked, the council…arse kicked, the various supporters groups are kicking each other up the arse. FFS stop, we may never get this chance again. Sixfields was **** up during the initial build. The first go at ground redevelopment was a disaster. Now we are close to fcuking it up again, at what point in our future is someone going to get it right?According to GPC the land is worth fcuk all, according to Manny it’s worth 100 million, according to Tel its somewhere in between. Instead of squabbling like a bunch of school kids over their crayons let’s find out the true picture and at least have a go at investigating something dynamic and different. Step forward the Trust board. Stop fcuking spitting poison and get on with getting the best for the club, and that ain’t kicking the sh1t out of the current owners, it’s a waste of time. It’s working with all parties to try and build something that will support the club long after KT and DB have gone back to Florida, Dubai or wherever it is they came from. Focus on what you can do, not hitting your head against the proverbial brick wall because your giving yourself and everyone else a headache. It cant be this hard can it, let’s not be sitting here in 10 years time saying “coulda, woulda, shoulda”.

I agree with you Melly, but as so many on here have pointed out its KT and DB who own the club and can do with it what they want. Also CDNL controls the leases to the development land and guess who owns CDNL?

Therefore if the only plans are for a car park and 'possibly' some warehousing what can anyone else do about it?

I'm sure we would all love training pitches, a Conference Centre, a Hotel, a Casino, or whatever....but if they are not even on the radar of the owners of the Cub or the holders of the leases then we are a bit screwed aren't we?

Either it is their club and their land and they can do with it what they want......or "we" should all have a vision along the lines of the one you have and we should all pressure the Club, owners and council to pursue that vision......which is it?

You know when the Trust say that what is proposed currently is not in the best interests of the club and subsequently withdraw support for the plans.....isn't this what you are advocating? The Trust would like to see the Football Club gain more than a car park and some boxes as pretty much the sum total of this "once in a lifetime" opportunity.
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« Reply #150 on: July 05, 2021, 12:44:08 pm »

They got £4.3m for the shares.....recorded and accepted even by 5U.  They also got £1.1m each personally according to the Trust statement.

The 65% shareholding was held by Fantastical Limited....a UK registered company with the common directorship......but Fantastical didn't sell the shares....BDJ did.

Ok, so this must surely be in some international court somewhere then presumably, as the guys in charge of 5USports would have a valid claim?

Is this the "clock is ticking" statement that was being made some weeks ago by others?
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« Reply #151 on: July 05, 2021, 12:47:28 pm »

I agree with you Melly, but as so many on here have pointed out its KT and DB who own the club and can do with it what they want. Also CDNL controls the leases to the development land and guess who owns CDNL?

Therefore if the only plans are for a car park and 'possibly' some warehousing what can anyone else do about it?

I'm sure we would all love training pitches, a Conference Centre, a Hotel, a Casino, or whatever....but if they are not even on the radar of the owners of the Cub or the holders of the leases then we are a bit screwed aren't we?

Either it is their club and their land and they can do with it what they want......or "we" should all have a vision along the lines of the one you have and we should all pressure the Club, owners and council to pursue that vision......which is it?

You know when the Trust say that what is proposed currently is not in the best interests of the club and subsequently withdraw support for the plans.....isn't this what you are advocating? The Trust would like to see the Football Club gain more than a car park and some boxes as pretty much the sum total of this "once in a lifetime" opportunity.

Maybe throwing the dummy out wasn't the best form of lobbying the Trust could have done to achieving Utopia?

Just a thought...
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« Reply #152 on: July 05, 2021, 12:55:10 pm »

Ok, so this must surely be in some international court somewhere then presumably, as the guys in charge of 5USports would have a valid claim?

Is this the "clock is ticking" statement that was being made some weeks ago by others?

Not quite.....because, as already pointed out, the money from 5U dried up (after they had completed the 100% purchase) and that forced BDJ to "loan" the club 1.1m in January 2018 as there was a concern then that the club could go bust, the security for that loan was Ventures shares (now owned by 5U Sports) in the club.

5U did not come up with any money in the month after the loan was made and the charge was proven, and the shares were (widely reported as) reacquired by KT and DB
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« Reply #153 on: July 05, 2021, 13:15:38 pm »

I agree with you Melly, but as so many on here have pointed out its KT and DB who own the club and can do with it what they want. Also CDNL controls the leases to the development land and guess who owns CDNL?

Therefore if the only plans are for a car park and 'possibly' some warehousing what can anyone else do about it?

I'm sure we would all love training pitches, a Conference Centre, a Hotel, a Casino, or whatever....but if they are not even on the radar of the owners of the Cub or the holders of the leases then we are a bit screwed aren't we?

Either it is their club and their land and they can do with it what they want......or "we" should all have a vision along the lines of the one you have and we should all pressure the Club, owners and council to pursue that vision......which is it?

You know when the Trust say that what is proposed currently is not in the best interests of the club and subsequently withdraw support for the plans.....isn't this what you are advocating? The Trust would like to see the Football Club gain more than a car park and some boxes as pretty much the sum total of this "once in a lifetime" opportunity.
Good question GPC, tbh without getting involved I don’t know. However, what I can tell you is constantly attacking the owners is going to achieve fcuk all. My message to the Trust board is play the strongest hand you can and that ain’t smacking the owners on the ar5e with a feather duster. Whilst we’re all fcuking about trying to prove we were right all along, desperate to say “I told you so” and displaying the biggest pair of b0ll0cks the club is going to end up with yet another missed opportunity. If the owners have recouped some money unethically then woopee fcuking do. What are the Trust board going to do with that, wear a T-shirt saying “Told you they was crooks”. Do something that will make a difference rather than massage your own ego proving to no one who cares you were right, to repeat nobody cares. Sorry to be blunt mate but the clocks ticking.
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« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2021, 13:27:20 pm »

Grin  Welcome to the land of the Barrack Room Lawyers...everyone really haven't got a clue have they?

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« Reply #155 on: July 05, 2021, 13:37:26 pm »

As a post above there is a lot of speculation so could someone please confirm the below by quoting the post...

Does anyone ACTUALLY know what the land is worth? Yes / No
Does anyone ACTUALLY know what can be built on the land? yes / no
Has anyone ACTUALLY asked or tried to enquire? yes / no
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« Reply #156 on: July 05, 2021, 13:42:12 pm »

Good question GPC, tbh without getting involved I don’t know. However, what I can tell you is constantly attacking the owners is going to achieve fcuk all. My message to the Trust board is play the strongest hand you can and that ain’t smacking the owners on the ar5e with a feather duster. Whilst we’re all fcuking about trying to prove we were right all along, desperate to say “I told you so” and displaying the biggest pair of b0ll0cks the club is going to end up with yet another missed opportunity. If the owners have recouped some money unethically then woopee fcuking do. What are the Trust board going to do with that, wear a T-shirt saying “Told you they was crooks”. Do something that will make a difference rather than massage your own ego proving to no one who cares you were right, to repeat nobody cares. Sorry to be blunt mate but the clocks ticking.

It was a good question.....but it appears nobody knows the answer!

There is a deal on the table, drawn up by the Club and presented to the Council. That deal involves completion of the East Stand to an acceptable but "financially prudent" standard. It also appears to have some executive boxes and some facilities within the finished stand. Also shown on the CGI is a car park on the site of the old Athletics stadium. Thats it!

Did the club ask fans what they would like to see? Did the Club ask the Trust what they would like to see? No.....this is the plan drawn up by KT and DB, and KT & DB alone. Its not acceptable is it? Even you acknowledge that......and because its not acceptable the Trust has withdrawn its support for it. What else could it do?

That doesn't mean this plan is dead and buried...its still on the table! We'd all like to see a lot more but we (fans, Trust or whoever) hold none of the cards.

When you say "clocks ticking"....what exactly are you proposing anyone does? This plan as it is either goes through or it doesn't....its the only plan.....the club isn't listening to suggestions!

Case in point...the New Hotel End plans..... great idea on paper, but how much funding was going to come from the club? I think we can all guess at the answer. If it was crowdfunded however it would be a different matter! Shouldn't this type of thing be embraced by the Club and its owners?
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« Reply #157 on: July 05, 2021, 14:09:22 pm »

It was a good question.....but it appears nobody knows the answer!

There is a deal on the table, drawn up by the Club and presented to the Council. That deal involves completion of the East Stand to an acceptable but "financially prudent" standard. It also appears to have some executive boxes and some facilities within the finished stand. Also shown on the CGI is a car park on the site of the old Athletics stadium. Thats it!

Did the club ask fans what they would like to see? Did the Club ask the Trust what they would like to see? No.....this is the plan drawn up by KT and DB, and KT & DB alone. Its not acceptable is it? Even you acknowledge that......and because its not acceptable the Trust has withdrawn its support for it. What else could it do?

That doesn't mean this plan is dead and buried...its still on the table! We'd all like to see a lot more but we (fans, Trust or whoever) hold none of the cards.

When you say "clocks ticking"....what exactly are you proposing anyone does? This plan as it is either goes through or it doesn't....its the only plan.....the club isn't listening to suggestions!

Case in point...the New Hotel End plans..... great idea on paper, but how much funding was going to come from the club? I think we can all guess at the answer. If it was crowdfunded however it would be a different matter! Shouldn't this type of thing be embraced by the Club and its owners?
Playing devils advocate did the Trust ask the fans what they want either? Sorry mate, just trying to make the point that all this finger pointing is futile. What I am proposing is investigate doing something radical that may progress the club in the long term? We may as well because currently we are going no where.
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« Reply #158 on: July 05, 2021, 14:28:29 pm »

As a post above there is a lot of speculation so could someone please confirm the below by quoting the post...

Does anyone ACTUALLY know what the land is worth? Yes / No
Does anyone ACTUALLY know what can be built on the land? yes / no
Has anyone ACTUALLY asked or tried to enquire? yes / no
Yes ( depends on business model) answers on a postcard to TFAMH.
Yes. Residential and Commercial.
Yes.
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« Reply #159 on: July 05, 2021, 14:33:16 pm »

Again. They got the money for shares. It is their money, they are under no obligation to put that money into the club as a gift.
Just to clarify again. DB and KT own a company that owns the majority shareholding in a football club that they have no real interest in and therefore are unlikely to hand over money without a way of recovering said money plus interest. I am pretty(OK I'm not really pretty) certain that should the land deal go through and they start reaping millions and money does flow into the club I would not be surprised if one of the first orders of business will be to repay the loans made by BDJ/NYV/FL.
Yes they did get money for shares from companies that funded the club, without the club there would be no transaction!
And you are right they have no obligation to pay that money into the club, doesn’t make it right though does it and the average punter hasn’t got a clue what’s going on.
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