guest3359
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For someone who purports to be an international ty**** and cannot miss an opportunity to broadcast the fact, you really are quite dim. I guess your your Kojee Bear piggybank must be empty.
As someone who has no knowledge of how international money transfers, tax, etc works, MC posts are interesting, but potentially only one side / perspective. I assume from your post you have experience to the contrary, could you please share so that we could have a balanced view / balanced inputs?
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Manwork04
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my understanding was that you had to be resident in Dubai for a given period and meet a number of conditions to achieve personal tax free status but possible. Kelvin Thomas would come under US or possibly UK dependant on days residing in each, but would cop for personal liability either way. The fact the money was paid off shore is irrelevant. For example I have to declare my global income. It matters not one jot that the money may have been earned in the UK and stays in a UK bank account and has never seen Australia. It doesn’t matter where that money is, BVI or Timbuktu. Of course I can choose not to declare it, but given there are global transparency agreements between tax offices that’s a massive risk. All it would take would be 5U Sport to make a claim and KT would be screwed. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to me.
So why would the majority of the money be paid into the BVI?
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Rule Britannia
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guest3338
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So why would the majority of the money be paid into the BVI?
Is the answer, because he goes there a lot on holiday?
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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Money from other clubs never used for its purpose 10k in a carrier bag Accounts not submitted on time Money from the Chinese Off shore accounts Bushey boys Houses all over the place Party donations Secret meetings all around Feel free to add anything I’ve missed…. They’re all at it……. “You were only supposed to blow the bleeding doors off”. **** EM ALL **** EM ALL THE TRUST THE CLUB ET ALL WE ARE THE COBBLERS AND WE ARE THE BEST WE ARE THE COBBLERS SO **** ALL THE REST No good deed goes unpunished.. 😀😀
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 08:11:47 am by Terryfenwickatemyhamster »
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BackOfTheNet
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Thanks BOTN, you are the first one to ever reply and actually try to explain what KT has done for my football club. My replies, which I don't expect you will like are above.
To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again. On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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1971cobbler
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To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.
On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.
Reading back on GPCs posts yesterday, I think it is being suggested that DB personally massively benefitted from the Chinese, but has then loaded an identical amount of debt onto the club over three financial years (I assume without the money actually being spent by NTFC)? So does that qualify for tax evasion if true / remotely possible to do? Would have been picked up by the clubs auditors when checking the accounts I would have thought, but you never know? If that is indeed the scenario, it does affect the club?
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claretparrot
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Belle-de-Jour took the bulk of the payment from 5USports, a sum of £4.342m. Belle-De-Jour, being a British Virgin Islands registered company would pay no tax on this money. KT and DB each received personally £1.189m for their share of NT Ventures
GPC, please could you share your source for this info? Not suggesting it isn't accurate, would just like to take a look myself.
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guest3338
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To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.
On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.
[/quoteIf KT did make the child walk again, who do you think he would blame for the child falling out of the wheelchair?
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Manwork04
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To be honest, random, I could say I once saw KT help a disabled child get back into a wheelchair they'd fallen out of and you'd criticise him for not making the child walk again.
On a wider note, I really don't understand the fixation some people have with our owner's tax status. If they aren't breaking any laws, and I've seen nothing to suggest they have, then how they manage their finances is their own business and has no impact on our club whatsoever.
Mate that’s a ridiculous statement, they have loaded the club with a massive debt, talk about cake and eat it!
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Rule Britannia
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BackOfTheNet
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Reading back on GPCs posts yesterday, I think it is being suggested that DB personally massively benefitted from the Chinese, but has then loaded an identical amount of debt onto the club over three financial years (I assume without the money actually being spent by NTFC)?
So does that qualify for tax evasion if true / remotely possible to do?
Would have been picked up by the clubs auditors when checking the accounts I would have thought, but you never know?
If that is indeed the scenario, it does affect the club?
I don't think the two are directly related. 5U bought the shares in the club from KT and DB (with whatever shell companies involved along the way) so that is their money. If the money they've "loaned" the club is from that pot or from elsewhere is a bit of a moot point. It's still unclear if the money from 5U was kept by any of the parties though. From the Trust statement the other week: March 2018
KT announced that 5USports had departed Ventures and NTFC as directors and that the shares had been “reacquired”, owing to the failure of 5USports to come up with working capital for the football club. Unannounced, ultimate control and ownership of NTFC was transferred to Belle de Jour Ltd.
It is not known whether a payment was made, and if so the amount paid, for reacquiring the shares. The club/KT&DB could clear this up very easily, but frankly I don't see why they should as they are under no obligation to publicly discuss their personal finances.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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claretparrot
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BOTN - this is where I'm at. I made the post below a couple of weeks ago and didn't see any responses that moved the dial. In fact GPC's post from yesterday is the first time I've read anything that even half addresses any of these points which is why I asked for his source so I could try to do some digging myself.
1. None of us know how much of the agreed consideration KT & DB actually received for their shares and/or how much of that was cash and/or how much of it was returned when the whole 5USport thing fell over. Correct me if I'm wrong? 2. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, that is between them and 5USport. You & I may not like it, but that alone doesn't mean anyone has done anything wrong 3. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, they have to-date ploughed £6-7m into the club's running costs, so they are at best back where they started and at worst £6-7m down on the deal as things stand
To clarify, I am not on either side in this debate but I'm getting so tired of the constant inference that someone is up to something at worst illegal, at best very shady, with no reliable evidence to back it up.
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 09:11:58 am by claretparrot »
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guest168
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BOTN, thats the level you have stooped to to defend our owners - disabled children WOW
Re our club / the owners - we are £7m in debt, back in League 2 without a good squad, about to lose 20m land asset & half the running track, and the ground falling apart
Do you think it is acceptable that they had plans for over 2 years on the East but did not show or mention them to the fans UNTIL some not good news comes out about them receiving £6.8m for selling the club, again without telling anyone?
You really think that is acceptable from the owners of your football club?
Also please reply to my answers from your support of our owners previously
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guest3359
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Just a thought on this and the anger seems to be that the owners potentially made the same amount from 5U that the club is currently showing as debt through loans.
So you have two choices. You can either transfer the £6m to the club and clear the debt. That will undoubtedly make all the fans happy. Or you keep the club owing £6m, then when you then come to sell the club (which they have made clear they are open to) you can then try to get the new owners to pay you the £6m and keep the £6m as profit. Or you keep the £6m in a rainy day account accumulating a nice bit of interest and then use it to clear the loans on the day of sale.
Im sure there are complex reasons why its not as simple as that. But essentially our owners have 2 bank accounts. One at -£6m, one at +£6m.
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1971cobbler
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I don't think the two are directly related. 5U bought the shares in the club from KT and DB (with whatever shell companies involved along the way) so that is their money. If the money they've "loaned" the club is from that pot or from elsewhere is a bit of a moot point.
It's still unclear if the money from 5U was kept by any of the parties though. From the Trust statement the other week:
The club/KT&DB could clear this up very easily, but frankly I don't see why they should as they are under no obligation to publicly discuss their personal finances.
If I am honest, this is my personal view too, and I think MC and a few others feel this way? If the money has needed to be spent (whether it represents good value or otherwise?) then the "debt" loaded on the club is only relevant to DB and KT if they can't recoup at point of sale. I think the question is whether the debt has been loaded on falsely though, to hide the monies that were received from the Chinese? GPC / Manny, am I reading between the lines correctly here from your viewpoints?
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guest168
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BOTN - this is where I'm at. I made the post below a couple of weeks ago and didn't see any responses that moved the dial. In fact GPC's post from yesterday is the first time I've read anything that even half addresses any of these points which is why I asked for his source so I could try to do some digging myself.
1. None of us know how much of the agreed consideration KT & DB actually received for their shares and/or how much of that was cash and/or how much of it was returned when the whole 5USport thing fell over. Correct me if I'm wrong? 2. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, that is between them and 5USport. You & I may not like it, but that alone doesn't mean anyone has done anything wrong 3. Even if they did 'pocket' £6-7m for the shares and keep it, they have to-date ploughed £6-7m into the club's running costs, so they are at best back where they started and at worst £6-7m down on the deal as things stand
So you do you trust owners who sell the football club to overseas investors but don't actually tell anyone? FFS its not about them doing anything legally wrong - it is morally and also just another example of their attitude towards the supporters of NTFC.
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guest3359
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So you do you trust owners who sell the football club to overseas investors but don't actually tell anyone?
FFS its not about them doing anything legally wrong - it is morally and also just another example of their attitude towards the supporters of NTFC.
I'm possibly going to show my stupidity / ignorance here, but didnt we know he had sold it to overseas investors?
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claretparrot
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So you do you trust owners who sell the football club to overseas investors but don't actually tell anyone?
FFS its not about them doing anything legally wrong - it is morally and also just another example of their attitude towards the supporters of NTFC.
By overseas investors, do you mean 5U? By not telling anyone, do you mean not telling anyone in advance? These are genuine questions - the answers will help me understand where you're coming from
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guest168
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Its not just where we are now, it's where we are heading in the future that worries me and the Trust
Every single year passes with them in control of our club the following happens
1. The team gets worse 2. The finances gets worse 3. The relationship with the fans gets worse 4. The condition of the ground gets worse 5. The communication from the owners gets worse
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guest3359
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Its not just where we are now, it's where we are heading in the future that worries me and the Trust
Every single year passes with them in control of our club the following happens
1. The team gets worse - Not true 2. The finances gets worse - True to a certain extent 3. The relationship with the fans gets worse - not true 4. The condition of the ground gets worse - true 5. The communication from the owners gets worse - not true (its always been pretty lacking)
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BackOfTheNet
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BOTN, thats the level you have stooped to to defend our owners - disabled children WOW I picked an act that no rational person could possibly take offence at, namely helping a disabled child back into a wheelchair. I'm in no way mocking disabled children, but if you want to take offence on behalf of a hypothetical illustration then be my guest. Re our club / the owners - we are £7m in debt, back in League 2 without a good squad, about to lose 20m land asset & half the running track, and the ground falling apart
Do you think it is acceptable that they had plans for over 2 years on the East but did not show or mention them to the fans UNTIL some not good news comes out about them receiving £6.8m for selling the club, again without telling anyone? Yes. As much as some people don't like it, NTFC is their business to develop as and when they choose. Or not to develop if they choose! As supporters we like to say it's "our" club and feel some sense of entitlement, but at the end of the day we are just interested parties. We'd all like the situation resolved as soon as possible and when you or I find ourselves in a position to buy the club and run it ourselves, it will then become our prerogative to do so. Until then, it's up to the current owners. You really think that is acceptable from the owners of your football club? Erm, yes. Also please reply to my answers from your support of our owners previously No. I've made my point of view quite clear and, like our owners, I am under no obligation to justify myself to you.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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