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New Trust statement on club finances

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claretparrot
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« Reply #540 on: July 23, 2021, 12:37:55 pm »

Unfortunately mate you can’t demarcate between the business side and what happens on the field, they are so linked it’s untrue.
I know what you mean about not wanting to get involved in the business side and KTs running of the club. BUT this is called Apathy and Cobblers fans are full of it and it plays into the owners hands.


Manny if you read back you'll see that I'm not apathetic in the slightest. As soon as we progress from innuendos (see your latest in bold), I'll sit up and listen. In fact, I've spent a fair chunk of today trying to accelerate that process to no avail.
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« Reply #541 on: July 23, 2021, 12:40:42 pm »

Manny if you read back you'll see that I'm not apathetic in the slightest. As soon as we progress from innuendos (see your latest in bold), I'll sit up and listen. In fact, I've spent a fair chunk of today trying to accelerate that process to no avail.
Sorry mate I wasn’t accusing you of not caring it was more of a general observation.
If you want the facts contact the trust they have all you need to know.
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« Reply #542 on: July 23, 2021, 12:46:01 pm »

Sorry mate I wasn’t accusing you of not caring it was more of a general observation.
If you want the facts contact the trust they have all you need to know.

No worries.

They may well have it, but unfortunately they are unwilling to share it. This is a claim I can evidence:

http://www.smfserver.com/forums/thehotelend/index.php/topic,20202.msg442346.html?PHPSESSID=23106eefd63cbb8a1331c849ed88b992#msg442346

See quote from linked post by MC Hammer:
MCH question: 'What physical evidence do you have that the payments were made/money changed hands for the amounts quoted?  Can that be shared to support the trusts statements?'

Trust response: 'The Trust Board is satisfied that the evidence of the payments in the amounts stated is accurate.'
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« Reply #543 on: July 23, 2021, 12:49:21 pm »

No worries.

They may well have it, but unfortunately they are unwilling to share it. This is a claim I can evidence:

http://www.smfserver.com/forums/thehotelend/index.php/topic,20202.msg442346.html?PHPSESSID=23106eefd63cbb8a1331c849ed88b992#msg442346

See quote from linked post by MC Hammer:
MCH question: 'What physical evidence do you have that the payments were made/money changed hands for the amounts quoted?  Can that be shared to support the trusts statements?'

Trust response: 'The Trust Board is satisfied that the evidence of the payments in the amounts stated is accurate.'
Maybe Grange Park Cobbler could help?
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« Reply #544 on: July 23, 2021, 12:52:07 pm »

For someone who purports to be an international ty**** and cannot miss an opportunity to broadcast the fact, you really are quite dim. I guess your your Kojee Bear piggybank must be empty.
Soggy, welcome back old friend.
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« Reply #545 on: July 23, 2021, 12:53:49 pm »

Maybe Grange Park Cobbler could help?

I've asked GPC to source some of the information he posted yesterday but he hasn't replied yet. Can you see the theme here and why it frustrates?

Whichever side of the debate you're on, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect people to back up what they say or back down if they can't/won't.
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« Reply #546 on: July 23, 2021, 13:00:08 pm »

So why would the majority of the money be paid into the BVI?
Reduction in corporation tax?
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« Reply #547 on: July 23, 2021, 13:47:05 pm »

On the Chinese money side of things then....

So we, the supporters, are not allowed to see evidence of the payments for the share purchase we just have to accept the word of the Supporters Trust.  Is that good enough? Everyone happy with that?

OK what about the fact that the Trust knew about this information last summer so about 12 months ago but chose not to publicly release it until recently.  Happy with that?  No questions anyone?  Would you have liked to have known about this a year ago?

According to KT someone from the Trust or closely associated with them then contacted media organisations with this information.  Happy with that?  Is that what you all would want to happen?

The Trust may have reported this information to the relevant authority but they can't or won't tell you if they did?  Somehow being governed by the Financial Conduct Authority is relevant to not being able to provide a detailed response.  What does that even mean?  If they have reported concerns to an authority would you want to know?  Would you be concerned why and what had been done wrong?  If they haven't reported it to anyone would that also be of interest why?

Anyway forget all that if the Trust board have concerns about the Chinese deal like other NTFC supporters that they are representative of would expect them to raise them directly with KT for an explanation.  Apparently they did.....last September.  What did they ask him I hear you all cry...no just me then?  We don't know it was a "closed letter".  What did he say in his explanantion?  We don't know becuase they never even told you even a year later that they even asked.....until the letter was released/leaked by KT to a supporter.  Was the Trust happy with KT's response did they question further?  What was said in the meetings that subsequently took place?  

WE DON'T KNOW BECUASE THEY WON'T TELL YOU OR RELEASE THE CORRESPONDENCE.  We only know it exists because KT released it.  The guy who isn't answering questions and won't tell you what happened with the Chinese deal.  You might not agree with his anwers as is your right but you surely deserve to at least know there were some answers.

Are you still happy with all that?

In an even more bizarre twist of events shortly after the Trust raised all these concerns regarding the Chinese deal with the owner...they released a joint statement with the club publicly backing the development deal.

Are you happy they backed the deal in those circumstances?  Did their concerns get removed after these interactions with KT?  You would think so if they decided to publicly back him?  If not what the hell were they doing?  Again no explanation given.

The final irony is that everyone that seems to have some level of concern about the legal and moral level of these Chinese funds suddenly seems to be ok about them if they were gifted/converted to share equity rather than loans.

So for those that constantly dismiss me as anti Trust and and don't think I should even be challenging them.  Honestly are you happy with all of that?  Have they given you all of the information you deserve or need to make a balanced judgement?  Is this how you want the Trust to be?  To you want to constantly be given a "view" of the trust board or the information so you can make your own mind up?

Closed communications, partial information, releasing information when they see fit, avoiding answering questions fully, a board that is making big decisions without consulting it's supporters......who am I talking about here KT or the Trust?

Surely you want more than this?
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« Reply #548 on: July 23, 2021, 14:07:33 pm »

That would be a great post MC if it was aimed at KT

The Trust have tried to support and tread carefully and has gotten them nowhere.

You really expect them to publish evidence about payments etc?

In the meantime you ask and expect nothing of KT?  have you actually considered why the Trust have taken this action? 

Did you get KT approval for your reply above? What is he offering you for your soul??
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« Reply #549 on: July 23, 2021, 14:09:06 pm »

Its not just where we are now, it's where we are heading in the future that worries me and the Trust

Every single year passes with them in control of our club the following happens

1. The team gets worse
2. The finances gets worse
3. The relationship with the fans gets worse
4. The condition of the ground gets worse
5. The communication from the owners gets worse.

What are your thoughts on the above MC, BOTN, Hammy and all the others focusing on the Trust rather than the owners?




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« Reply #550 on: July 23, 2021, 14:22:10 pm »

That would be a great post MC if it was aimed at KT

The Trust have tried to support and tread carefully and has gotten them nowhere.

You really expect them to publish evidence about payments etc?

In the meantime you ask and expect nothing of KT?  have you actually considered why the Trust have taken this action? 

Did you get KT approval for your reply above? What is he offering you for your soul??

Random, it is the Trust and its friends shouting the odds and trying to discredit the club. That is why people are putting the onus on them to provide supporting evidence for their position. It isn't about being pro or anti anyone, it's about not just reading a series of unsubstantiated claims on here and taking them as gospel.

On the bit in bold - yes. Absolutely I do. How else can the rest of us be expected to take them seriously?
If you were accused of wrongdoing, I'm sure you'd want your accuser to need to show some proof or good evidence before you were arrested and/or all your friends turned their backs on you and/or you ended up in the papers. No?
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« Reply #551 on: July 23, 2021, 14:30:00 pm »

Well, as you've asked me specifically....

Its not just where we are now, it's where we are heading in the future that worries me and the Trust

Every single year passes with them in control of our club the following happens

1. The team gets worse - Subjective at best.
YearFinishComment
11 L2They can't take much credit for this one, although we might not have finished the season at all if they hadn't come in.
216 L1Worse
322 L1Worse
415 L2A level lower, but a better team.
57 L2Not great to watch, granted, but you can't argue with promotion.
622nd L1Worse
7Huh?Who knows, but under Brady I'm hopeful.
2. The finances gets worse - On paper.  
3. The relationship with the fans gets worse - completely disagree. I think most fans are right behind the team and proud of the club. I can't wait for the season to start.
4. The condition of the ground gets worse - this is true. I appreciate if there is going to be movement on the development front soon you might not spend that much on maintenance but FFS, you could at least get someone to fix the outdoor tap behind the North stand that has clearly been jetting water for some time!
5. The communication from the owners gets worse - disagree again. I think they say what they can. Things are at a delicate stage with the council, say too much and either irritate the council or get the fans' hopes up only to be pilloried if things then don't happen. Sometimes it's best to keep quiet. That way you only get pilloried for your communications getting worse.


« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 14:44:53 pm by BackOfTheNet » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #552 on: July 23, 2021, 14:36:44 pm »

What are your thoughts on the above MC, BOTN, Hammy and all the others focusing on the Trust rather than the owners?


In fairness Random the points are a bit subjective.

1. The team gets worse (2 promotions and relegations during the tenure suggests more of a standing still)
2. The finances gets worse (Solely in debt to the owners so irrelevant really)
3. The relationship with the fans gets worse (again the usual people are for/against/indifferent, so more standing still I would say)
4. The condition of the ground gets worse (agreed , but it was dog sh1t to start with)
5. The communication from the owners gets worse. (Disagree but again subjective)

The main issue is that the people who have a problem with the owners continue to do so, the people who don’t, don’t. And the people who are indifferent remain so and absolutely no one is changing their stance. Complete stalemate and it ain’t going to change anytime soon, unless something drastic happens. All your posts, commentary, arguments and statements of fact have been a complete waste of time and achieved nothing. A bit like mine really.
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« Reply #553 on: July 23, 2021, 14:45:27 pm »

That would be a great post MC if it was aimed at KT

The Trust have tried to support and tread carefully and has gotten them nowhere.

You really expect them to publish evidence about payments etc?

In the meantime you ask and expect nothing of KT?  have you actually considered why the Trust have taken this action? 

Did you get KT approval for your reply above? What is he offering you for your soul??

Random this response is why people aren't believing the Trust, of course we want evidence. What you are doing with this is just putting peoples backs up.

We don't necessarily believe or trust KT, however, the Trust recently have done very little to earn our trust either. If they have evidence and they want the fans on board then they need to put proven information out in the public domain otherwise it can seem like sour grapes. If the Trust don't put the information out there and have it then they are no better than the owner, it almost seems like they want us to be in a position where we have to get the buckets out so they can say I told you so and gloat.

I don't know how you cannot see that people just want the full information it doesn't help when they ask for this that you accuse them of supporting KT.
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« Reply #554 on: July 23, 2021, 14:47:38 pm »

Random, it is the Trust and its friends shouting the odds and trying to discredit the club. That is why people are putting the onus on them to provide supporting evidence for their position. It isn't about being pro or anti anyone, it's about not just reading a series of unsubstantiated claims on here and taking them as gospel.

On the bit in bold - yes. Absolutely I do. How else can the rest of us be expected to take them seriously?
If you were accused of wrongdoing, I'm sure you'd want your accuser to need to show some proof or good evidence before you were arrested and/or all your friends turned their backs on you and/or you ended up in the papers. No?

+1

Smacks of Trump, Guilliani et al.

"We were robbed, the election was rigged"

Q: Where's the proof of that?
A: We have tons of proof.

Q: OK, can you publish it so we can investigate.
A: We have proof....

And so it goes on and on and on.  Sad

Meanwhile, there's a season to prepare for and look forward to.
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« Reply #555 on: July 23, 2021, 15:02:15 pm »

That would be a great post MC if it was aimed at KT

The Trust have tried to support and tread carefully and has gotten them nowhere.

You really expect them to publish evidence about payments etc?

In the meantime you ask and expect nothing of KT?  have you actually considered why the Trust have taken this action? 

Did you get KT approval for your reply above? What is he offering you for your soul??

Random.  This is a message board and this thread was created to discuss the Trust Statement they released regarding Club Finances.

This statement led me to have several questions of the Supporters Trust, who remember released this statement, which I asked on here and then directly to them via email.  The answers or any information they supply may well have lead me to have questions of the owners.  It's clear this information led the Supporters Trust to have questions of the owners which apparently they asked and received answers....a year ago.  You only know this because the owners released the response when a supporter questioned him recently in the way you are suggesting everyone should.  If I'd have asked KT myself I probably would have got the same response.

So you are telling me that every individual supporter is supposed to go and individually question the owners of the club to find out answers to questions that a supporters representative body has already asked in secret and has replies to?  Is there nothing at all telling you this shouldn't be the way it should work?

As for petty insults re getting KT's approval or selling my soul.  You haven't addressed a single issue I have raised other than to respond I should be challenging KT.  Not a single peep on any of the issues I have raised with the Trust and their response......on a thread created to discuss their statement!  If the extent of your debate is ask KT then you've alrady said it and I would extend the same advice to you.  Let me know how you get on and stop side tracking this thread.
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« Reply #556 on: July 23, 2021, 15:34:02 pm »

Random this response is why people aren't believing the Trust, of course we want evidence. What you are doing with this is just putting peoples backs up.

We don't necessarily believe or trust KT, however, the Trust recently have done very little to earn our trust either. If they have evidence and they want the fans on board then they need to put proven information out in the public domain otherwise it can seem like sour grapes. If the Trust don't put the information out there and have it then they are no better than the owner, it almost seems like they want us to be in a position where we have to get the buckets out so they can say I told you so and gloat.

I don't know how you cannot see that people just want the full information it doesn't help when they ask for this that you accuse them of supporting KT.

Great post. 

Here's the funny thing about all of this.  I'm inclined to believe on balance the figures are probably correct.  I highly doubt the Trust Board would put out this information knowing the risk they put themselves under if it's false.

So why is the supporting evidence important?  As you rightly point out it provides context and supports their statement.  The seeming reluctance to provide supporting evidence does the reverse and makes people question why you won't.

I have no idea what "the evidence" is but without knowing what it is, where it came from and how it was obtained how much weight can you put on it?  Essentially we are being told "trust me".

You might also rightly ask, if they have evidence of the payments received why don't they have evidence of what was paid out if anything to regain the ownership or the costs involved?
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« Reply #557 on: July 23, 2021, 15:49:25 pm »

You seem to spend a whole lot of time and energy criticising the Trust and its supporters on this site but remarkably little time criticising the club's owners.  The owners are the story and it's quite a story.

If you had seen proof of payment what difference would it make to your view? Not a lot I suggest. I am sure you will continue with your Trust bashing. You are a sad case.


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« Reply #558 on: July 23, 2021, 15:49:51 pm »

Great post. 

Here's the funny thing about all of this.  I'm inclined to believe on balance the figures are probably correct.  I highly doubt the Trust Board would put out this information knowing the risk they put themselves under if it's false.

So why is the supporting evidence important?  As you rightly point out it provides context and supports their statement.  The seeming reluctance to provide supporting evidence does the reverse and makes people question why you won't.

I have no idea what "the evidence" is but without knowing what it is, where it came from and how it was obtained how much weight can you put on it?  Essentially we are being told "trust me".

You might also rightly ask, if they have evidence of the payments received why don't they have evidence of what was paid out if anything to regain the ownership or the costs involved?

I totally agree with you, we as a club, need an active and fully functioning trust to warn and prevent anything underhand happening, what we appear to have is a trust that if anything is more secretive than the club which does not sit right with me. If there is knowledge and proof of wrongdoing or concerns need to be raised then they are going about it in totally the wrong way. Most supporters will jump into action if they know something is wrong but unless we are given facts we cannot act.
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« Reply #559 on: July 23, 2021, 16:04:04 pm »

You seem to spend a whole lot of time and energy criticising the Trust and its supporters on this site but remarkably little time criticising the club's owners.  The owners are the story and it's quite a story.

If you had seen proof of payment what difference would it make to your view? Not a lot I suggest. I am sure you will continue with your Trust bashing. You are a sad case.




Welcome back, Roger!  Tongue
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