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New Trust statement on club finances

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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #680 on: July 26, 2021, 16:26:40 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry
Honestly mate absolutely no idea. The trouble with the Deloitte report as I stated and the abbreviated accounts as you have discovered/pointed out is that it gives you a generalised basic snap shot. You’re not going to get that kind of detail anytime soon I would imagine.
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« Reply #681 on: July 26, 2021, 16:34:35 pm »

Honestly mate absolutely no idea. The trouble with the Deloitte report as I stated and the abbreviated accounts as you have discovered/pointed out is that it gives you a generalised basic snap shot. You’re not going to get that kind of detail anytime soon I would imagine.
Probably not, hence all the supposition.
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« Reply #682 on: July 26, 2021, 16:35:16 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry
Found this.

https://www.888sport.com/blog/league-two-salary

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/leaked-report-reveals-how-much-18169396
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« Reply #683 on: July 26, 2021, 16:36:19 pm »

Well…. That’s total desperate bolloxs..   Grin Grin.
I was keeping it polite  Wink
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« Reply #684 on: July 26, 2021, 16:47:14 pm »

So using the figures of clubs that responded (14 out of 24 in league 2) it costs £2.5 million to maintain an average squad of 22 in league 2 plus bonuses and £5.5 million plus bonuses in League 1. According to this report anyway and bearing in mind not all clubs responded.
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« Reply #685 on: July 26, 2021, 16:54:54 pm »

I can see that now Melbourne thanks. What's you best guess on the total wage bill on the playing side then, managers coaches physios etc etc all included then?
I don't see how they reach a figure of 287 employees though I remember reading that before. Can you explain that one? Ho does inflating the numbers of employees help with creative accountancy?
And what difference to the integrity of the football club would you say the academy and the education programmes make and is it self funding or does it require subsidising? If it does require subsidising it would be the first limb I would remove in DBs position, sorry to say.
How many actual administrative staff are there from James Whiting down, I wonder?

Damm sure they ought to be able to cover it all for two and six, said Mr Bower.  Angry

It's impossible to break out the playing side without some huge assumptions. I just had a crack and didn't get anywhere close to sensible. Far more likely to see something accurate on articles like those posted by Melly above but even then you're not getting a complete picture.

As for the 287, I'm sure it's accurate. Would imagine the bulk of it is matchday staff working a very small number of hours - if they're agency I start to struggle with how it gets there.

The buckets I can think of are:

Playing staff
Coaching staff - first team, youth/academy, ladies, other (e.g. disability sides)
Support staff (e.g. kit man)
Medical staff
Recruitment team
Ground staff

Senior management (non-playing) - CEO, Secretary, Commercial Director etc.
Ticket Office
Club Shop
Media (Gareth W +)
Community
Chief Creative Accountant

Matchday catering
Stewards & security
Other matchday roles
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« Reply #686 on: July 26, 2021, 16:56:46 pm »

So using the figures of clubs that responded (14 out of 24 in league 2) it costs £2.5 million to maintain an average squad of 22 in league 2 plus bonuses and £5.5 million plus bonuses in League 1. According to this report anyway and bearing in mind not all clubs responded.
One final rough calculation, if their are 287 members of staff and and 22 players cost 2.5 million then 1.5 million is spread over 265 staff. 1.5 million divided by 265 divided by 12 means the average monthly salary of the remaining staff is £471 per month. This suggests the overwhelming majority of staff are part time match day employees I would think?
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« Reply #687 on: July 26, 2021, 17:15:43 pm »

Bare in mind, wages were capped at £2.5 million in League One and £1.5 million League two for a while. While this wasn't applied retrospectively, and there were definitely big spenders and fallen giants well above this, I'd imagine the limit would be a target that a fair few clubs were under each year.
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« Reply #688 on: July 26, 2021, 18:03:52 pm »

It's impossible to break out the playing side without some huge assumptions. I just had a crack and didn't get anywhere close to sensible. Far more likely to see something accurate on articles like those posted by Melly above but even then you're not getting a complete picture.

As for the 287, I'm sure it's accurate. Would imagine the bulk of it is matchday staff working a very small number of hours - if they're agency I start to struggle with how it gets there.

The buckets I can think of are:

Playing staff
Coaching staff - first team, youth/academy, ladies, other (e.g. disability sides)
Support staff (e.g. kit man)
Medical staff
Recruitment team
Ground staff

Senior management (non-playing) - CEO, Secretary, Commercial Director etc.
Ticket Office
Club Shop
Media (Gareth W +)
Community
Chief Creative Accountant

Matchday catering
Stewards & security
Other matchday roles

I agree the employment numbers will be provable, right down to every tea boy and briefly employed Chinaman in the name of education. Don't we also employ online scouts or is that lads who represent us at online games in the name of NTFC?
It would be interesting to compare club turnover and numbers of employees against one of the top six premier sides. Economies of scale would no doubt kick in.
I'm struggling to get much beyond 150 though.
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« Reply #689 on: July 26, 2021, 20:19:40 pm »

Would be useful to know how many of the "employees" were full-time. Have been looking at a number of other clubs accounts, I highlighted last week Exeters who listed 214 staff, Colchester are 255, whereas MK Dons who submit full accounts only have 123 staff ( 1 director, 82 full time playing, training and management, and 41 admin and commercial) They do however have an additional 135 temporary matchday staff.
With the full time and temporary that still only comes to 257 though against our 287.
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« Reply #690 on: July 26, 2021, 20:26:59 pm »

No disrespect to anyone and I realise a few people have wasted a fair bit of time to come up with not a lot of anything very interesting, but this thread has degenerated into something that’s making me lose the will to live.
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« Reply #691 on: July 26, 2021, 20:28:01 pm »

I only listed out the various staff categories I could think of to show that if you put a bit of thought into most of these things (i.e. 287 is loads of staff, something must be off), they're really not that exciting. How wrong I was!
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« Reply #692 on: July 26, 2021, 20:42:49 pm »

I agree the employment numbers will be provable, right down to every tea boy and briefly employed Chinaman in the name of education. Don't we also employ online scouts or is that lads who represent us at online games in the name of NTFC?
It would be interesting to compare club turnover and numbers of employees against one of the top six premier sides. Economies of scale would no doubt kick in.
I'm struggling to get much beyond 150 though.

Arsenal as an example (per their financial statements to May 31st 2020;

Note 6. Employees 
The average monthly number of persons employed by the Group during the year was:
Playing staff 70
Training staff 77
Commercial and Administrative staff 432
Ground staff 124
Total = 703
In  addition,  the  Group  used  on  average  1,135  temporary  staff  each  month,  mainly  on  match  days.

Just Google Overpaid FC Financial Statements and you can go through the Premier League sides one by one
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« Reply #693 on: July 26, 2021, 21:06:01 pm »

Spot on.

Are you serious? 😂😂

You got almost double my post count on here, and easily triple what I’ve got on this thread. You’re our best customer 🤣🤣 87 posts on this thread alone

« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 21:31:17 pm by Terryfenwickatemyhamster » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #694 on: July 26, 2021, 22:27:35 pm »

Are you serious? 😂😂

You got almost double my post count on here, and easily triple what I’ve got on this thread. You’re our best customer 🤣🤣 87 posts on this thread alone


Are you seriously counting my posts in this thread. 🤪
Roll on the football.
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« Reply #695 on: July 26, 2021, 22:45:23 pm »

No disrespect to anyone and I realise a few people have wasted a fair bit of time to come up with not a lot of anything very interesting, but this thread has degenerated into something that’s making me lose the will to live.
Always the way though Shoey. Everybody likes a subjective opinion, start trying to drill down and expose that opinion to a bit of data and people generally don’t want to know. Too much effort, much easier to guess it all. I can’t be ar5ed to read all the stuff myself.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 23:33:43 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #696 on: July 26, 2021, 22:46:51 pm »

Are you seriously counting my posts in this thread. 🤪
Roll on the football.

I don’t have to count anyone’s posts… I've got the admin section 😛😀

« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 07:49:53 am by Terryfenwickatemyhamster » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #697 on: July 26, 2021, 22:54:16 pm »

Bare in mind, wages were capped at £2.5 million in League One and £1.5 million League two for a while. While this wasn't applied retrospectively, and there were definitely big spenders and fallen giants well above this, I'd imagine the limit would be a target that a fair few clubs were under each year.
you would think no spectators would have wiped a fair chunk off that bill though?
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« Reply #698 on: July 27, 2021, 10:06:38 am »

For the attention of "Back of the Net"
Re the East Stand, NTFC said on 25th June 2021 "We are positive about the direction we are heading and felt confident enough that a few months ago we were able to commission these conceptual images to show both the council, supporters and stakeholders what we are trying to achieve with the East Stand". It is a know fact that the plans displayed at the Open Evening are over 5 years old, so isn't that statement a little misleading ?
No idea. Do we definitely "know" they are over 5 years old? That's a genuine question by the way, I haven't seen where that has been proven beyond the odd person saying they look the same as ones that other people saw years ago.

The drawings were first issued on 11th Feb 2016
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« Reply #699 on: July 27, 2021, 10:23:03 am »

Are you serious? 😂😂

You got almost double my post count on here, and easily triple what I’ve got on this thread. You’re our best customer 🤣🤣 87 posts on this thread alone


Grin That is SO going to annoy a certain other customer
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