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New Trust statement on club finances

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Author Topic: New Trust statement on club finances  (Read 17414 times)
cobblertone
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« Reply #760 on: August 31, 2021, 13:46:50 pm »

Hearts owner gives shares to Hearts foundation.
Today, Heart of Midlothian officially becomes the biggest fan-owned club in British football

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58385733

Around 8,000 supporters make monthly pledges to the group with them officially taking ownership on Monday.

Do we have 8K willing to match the level of the £10 Million they put into the club and ground.

Impossible to tell what we could raise but hats off to Hearts, they clearly have developed some great momentum.
Simple maths suggests we would struggle to raise anywhere near that level of funding:

- They have given £10m over 7 years. That would be 5,000 people giving £285 each per year.
- 5,000 giving £10 a month would represent just under £1m a year

Their 8,000 giving an average of £20 a month would generate £2m a year.

We'd be better off attracting a consortium of local businesses that could put in regular amounts.

Whatever the ultimate outcome at Hearts it must drive far greater fan engagement and passion for their club.
I personally just don't think we have that in our support in enough numbers, although I'm sure we have plenty of followers with a few quid.
We'll see if we ever get the over priced exec boxes.
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Shoemender
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« Reply #761 on: August 31, 2021, 14:01:08 pm »

Impossible to tell what we could raise but hats off to Hearts, they clearly have developed some great momentum.
Simple maths suggests we would struggle to raise anywhere near that level of funding:

- They have given £10m over 7 years. That would be 5,000 people giving £285 each per year.
- 5,000 giving £10 a month would represent just under £1m a year

Their 8,000 giving an average of £20 a month would generate £2m a year.

We'd be better off attracting a consortium of local businesses that could put in regular amounts.

Whatever the ultimate outcome at Hearts it must drive far greater fan engagement and passion for their club.
I personally just don't think we have that in our support in enough numbers, although I'm sure we have plenty of followers with a few quid.
We'll see if we ever get the over priced exec boxes.

Another thing with Hearts is that all their fans support Hearts and only Hearts, I'd be very surprised if any support Celtic/Rangers.
Probably half ours have prem teams so Hearts fans hearts, excuse the pun, are a lot more in it than than a lot of our fans. That's the sad reality and why it's unlikely to happen.
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« Reply #762 on: August 31, 2021, 14:44:32 pm »

You're off your heads if you think we could raise millions as fans.

When the club was going out of business we barely raised anything as fans.

Who mentioned millions? ...other than you?
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« Reply #763 on: August 31, 2021, 14:49:33 pm »

Who mentioned millions? ...other than you?

I mean, Shoemender did literally a few posts back. It's okay though, I know it can be difficult to read.
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« Reply #764 on: August 31, 2021, 16:28:30 pm »

Impossible to tell what we could raise but hats off to Hearts, they clearly have developed some great momentum.
Whatever the ultimate outcome at Hearts it must drive far greater fan engagement and passion for their club.
I personally just don't think we have that in our support in enough numbers, although I'm sure we have plenty of followers with a few quid.
We'll see if we ever get the over priced exec boxes.
I think we should look a little closer to home for a bit of inspiration, lets have a look what Lincoln did to go from 2,000 in the National League to 9000 in League One. I know a successful team is a BIG help but the last few times we've been to Lincoln you couldn't help but notice how much the fans have "Bought into" whatever Lincoln were doing, everyone was so enthusiastic about their club and it seemed a two way thing with the club moving forward.
So why don't NTFC get someone to have a look back at what Lincoln have done and see if we could apply any of it to NTFC. I'm sure they could afford to look, after all the paid someone to go through all the personal tweets and face book posting of people "associated" with the Trust, digging for dirt didn't they ?
       Unfortunately at NTFC, at the moment, there doesn't seem to be much "Pride" in the club, as people have been stating for a while, the ground is looking a bit rundown and we have had no TV's working in Carr's Bar all season, I don't know if they are working on the concourse, but surely it's not too difficult to get that sorted in 2 weeks ? The beer is well over a £1 a pint dearer than the Tavern and with no football on the TV's they will lose custom, but the impression I get is that they are not too worried.
       Also, looking from the outside, it seems the Commercial Department do OK with corporate business's but no one is looking at the average fan. For a start £24 is a ridicules price for League 2 football, we are NOT going to sell out any games unless we are in the battle at the top at the end of the season, so why not sell a "5 game package" for say £90, must be used by Christmas or something similar.
        Let's see a bit of "creative marketing" to try and get the people of the town behind us, mend the broken TV's and windows, any new or returning  fans will want to see a bit of pride and positivity around the club, but at the moment, I don't see too much of it.
         
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cobblertone
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« Reply #765 on: August 31, 2021, 17:42:12 pm »

I think we should look a little closer to home for a bit of inspiration, lets have a look what Lincoln did to go from 2,000 in the National League to 9000 in League One. I know a successful team is a BIG help but the last few times we've been to Lincoln you couldn't help but notice how much the fans have "Bought into" whatever Lincoln were doing, everyone was so enthusiastic about their club and it seemed a two way thing with the club moving forward.
So why don't NTFC get someone to have a look back at what Lincoln have done and see if we could apply any of it to NTFC. I'm sure they could afford to look, after all the paid someone to go through all the personal tweets and face book posting of people "associated" with the Trust, digging for dirt didn't they ?
       Unfortunately at NTFC, at the moment, there doesn't seem to be much "Pride" in the club, as people have been stating for a while, the ground is looking a bit rundown and we have had no TV's working in Carr's Bar all season, I don't know if they are working on the concourse, but surely it's not too difficult to get that sorted in 2 weeks ? The beer is well over a £1 a pint dearer than the Tavern and with no football on the TV's they will lose custom, but the impression I get is that they are not too worried.
       Also, looking from the outside, it seems the Commercial Department do OK with corporate business's but no one is looking at the average fan. For a start £24 is a ridicules price for League 2 football, we are NOT going to sell out any games unless we are in the battle at the top at the end of the season, so why not sell a "5 game package" for say £90, must be used by Christmas or something similar.
        Let's see a bit of "creative marketing" to try and get the people of the town behind us, mend the broken TV's and windows, any new or returning  fans will want to see a bit of pride and positivity around the club, but at the moment, I don't see too much of it.
         

It is really difficult and so much working against football clubs these days. I'd say the football on the pitch (to sustain crowds) is as important as anything. There are only so many times someone will part with money to watch dross. How many people don't go for a few seasons and then return to 'feel the magic' only to leave early in some drab encounter, vowing not to return?
Price is definitely another big factor but difficult to find that optimum cost. I'd imagine £24 puts a few off, although I'm sure they've done their sums and not enough to justify say £20.
I've always thought that football has outpriced family spectators, well those with older kids. I could afford it but just couldn't justify paying £64 to attend a game at Sixfields, which is tickets only. Then there is the age old problem of getting 'decent' seats.

They could certainly do with investing some money to 'tart up' the place and the outsourced catering isn't the best. Whilst appreciating that it is difficult to run something once or twice a fortnight there could be earning potential here to do something far better for the punters. Investment in the overall match day experience would definitely help.

Packages are a good idea but practically it still needs someone to commit to multiple games for a decent outlay.

Maybe it's just different times to the 30-40k at Wembley but apathy seems to reign. Maybe it's just cyclical and we are having our late 70's/early 80's moment again?! Not forgetting the other 'big C' that will still be having some impact with people's movements, especially on our demographic!
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #766 on: September 01, 2021, 13:45:24 pm »

I mean, Shoemender did literally a few posts back. It's okay though, I know it can be difficult to read.

I thought you were replying to my post. But it's okay, carry on wandering... Roll Eyes
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Wanderingteyn
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« Reply #767 on: September 01, 2021, 21:35:21 pm »

I thought you were replying to my post. But it's okay, carry on wandering... Roll Eyes

Apologies. Please go back to being Jolly.
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« Reply #768 on: September 02, 2021, 19:07:02 pm »

Why are you ridiculing people who my not think the same as you Shoemender ? I'm a season ticket holder and I wouldn't give a penny to a fan owned Club, my choice.

So I assume that you never put any money in to the collection buckets last time?

You really think that KT does a better job than you would if it was your club BOTN?

You seem either happy with our owners, just wondered why you think that. Can you please give me 3 examples where KT/DB exceed your expectations of an owner. Thanks
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« Reply #769 on: September 02, 2021, 21:46:40 pm »

So I assume that you never put any money in to the collection buckets last time?

You really think that KT does a better job than you would if it was your club BOTN?

You seem either happy with our owners, just wondered why you think that. Can you please give me 3 examples where KT/DB exceed your expectations of an owner. Thanks


I don't know what you're dragging me into this for, my sole recent contribution to this debate has been the word "ditto". However, you have asked me the same thing before so here's my response from last time:

Well let's see....

What has KT/DB done that's been good?

  • Paid the inland revenue bill
  • Established the education programme
  • Made the club run in a much more professional manner
  • Stuck some seats in the East Stand so at least we are making some money from it in the interim
  • Been happy to engage with fans when approached directly (apparently, never bothered trying it myself beyond a cordial "hello" when passing him on the concourse.)
  • Overseen a big increase in the community work done
  • Subsidised the club with director loans to keep us going
  • Continued to slog through the red tape with the council for the redevelopment work


I know you disagree with most of that because you did last time. Probably best just to read back through the last time we had this discussion rather than have it all over again though.
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« Reply #770 on: September 02, 2021, 23:16:07 pm »

Random   yes I did put money in the buckets last time, as the call was going out to raise money to give to the unpaid staff. Wish I hadn't, look at the way that money is now0 being used as a weapon against the Club. Never again will I donate money to anything fan led.
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« Reply #771 on: September 02, 2021, 23:48:46 pm »

Random   yes I did put money in the buckets last time, as the call was going out to raise money to give to the unpaid staff. Wish I hadn't, look at the way that money is now0 being used as a weapon against the Club. Never again will I donate money to anything fan led.
Could you please explain how "That money is now being used as a weapon against the club"  ?
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« Reply #772 on: September 03, 2021, 00:14:00 am »

Carton you know exactly what I'm saying ,how many times have certain people referred to the money given to the Club as being a loan? That money was given by fans for the benefit of the staff, not too be used as a loan.
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Shoemender
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« Reply #773 on: September 03, 2021, 08:09:53 am »

Random   yes I did put money in the buckets last time, as the call was going out to raise money to give to the unpaid staff. Wish I hadn't, look at the way that money is now0 being used as a weapon against the Club. Never again will I donate money to anything fan led.

Just playing devils advocate. The buckets were out to raise money to save the club. There was also an online fund raising page set up as well. It was only after KT came in and "saved" us that it was decided to give/loan some of the money to the club to pay staff, as I remember.
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« Reply #774 on: September 03, 2021, 08:20:41 am »

There was absolutely no mention of paying staff wages when we were shaking buckets, so please try again.

I (and not the Trust) post that the TRust "loaned" and were expecting it back (mainly i think because the Trust was not there to pay staff wages, especially when an owner comes in saying they have £4m to spend)
Its hardly a weapon and its against KT ethics not the club.

the staff payment was agreed by the board and was made a few days before KT took over.

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« Reply #775 on: September 03, 2021, 08:47:17 am »

Just playing devils advocate. The buckets were out to raise money to save the club. There was also an online fund raising page set up as well. It was only after KT came in and "saved" us that it was decided to give/loan some of the money to the club to pay staff, as I remember.
Just playing devils advocate, the Trust decided to Loan the money to the club, but didn't get the details of the loan, including repayment formally agreed / in writing. They now want the wider fan base to support them in running the club and handling all sorts of financial, contractual and commercial arrangements
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« Reply #776 on: September 03, 2021, 10:44:35 am »

Carton you know exactly what I'm saying ,how many times have certain people referred to the money given to the Club as being a loan? That money was given by fans for the benefit of the staff, not too be used as a loan.
The club, James Whiting the CEO, asked the Trust for a loan, the agreement was that it would be paid back after the takeover was completed. KT. when he came in, declined to do that, stating it was DC debt. It was pointed out to him that he would have took over a club with no admin staff if the loan hadn't been taken out.
       You stated in your original post that you gave money because the Trust put "a call out to raise money for the unpaid staff" again this is untrue, things were happening so quickly then, that the Trust collected donations and used them as was appropriate, like paying for the team coach so NTFC could for fill a fixture.
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« Reply #777 on: September 03, 2021, 10:52:37 am »

Just playing devils advocate. The buckets were out to raise money to save the club. There was also an online fund raising page set up as well. It was only after KT came in and "saved" us that it was decided to give/loan some of the money to the club to pay staff, as I remember.
100% not true. Think about it, when KT took over NTFC and it's staff became his responsibility, so why would the Trust pay the staff ?  As stated lots of times NTFC asked the Trust for a loan towards the end of DC's time, which had to be in cash, because the bank accounts had been frozen, to pay the staff, some of whom were going to walk out because they hadn't been paid.
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« Reply #778 on: September 03, 2021, 10:59:29 am »

Wasn't the loan repayment deferred by The Trust in order to assist/fund something for the benefit of the supporters? I'm not saying it was for it, but wasn't the fans 'village' mentioned?
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« Reply #779 on: September 03, 2021, 11:02:35 am »

How was it recorded in the Trusts meeting minutes and accounts for that year?
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