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Rochdale home 21.08.21

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Author Topic: Rochdale home 21.08.21  (Read 9409 times)
TownOwl
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« Reply #200 on: August 22, 2021, 23:07:07 pm »

Totally agree with Drilling's summary.

Thought Etete was rather good, but did run himself into the ground so could understand that change. Not so Kabamba though, so bringing on Rose for Etete only would have saved a sub to allow Kioki to inject some flair/pace late on.

I quite like Connolly, but I think I'd have tried Flores to see if he could inject some creativity in the middle. Also think Pollock has a role to play in that regard.
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Roll Eyes           Roll Eyes           Roll Eyes
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« Reply #201 on: August 22, 2021, 23:19:49 pm »

Is there categoric evidence that their 2nd goal wasn't offside? From where I was sat (near half way Row H) it looked a yard or more that way but I'm (un)happy enough to be proved wrong.
Look at the highlights on ifollow, definitely off side.
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« Reply #202 on: August 22, 2021, 23:20:48 pm »

The plan B was keep the shape and swap the strikers, no idea what they were thinking. I thought we needed 5 in midfield. I reckon that should have been preferably match them up with 3 at the back. Needed Flores but tactically the coaching staff had a bad day. This is the continual problem, what is the plan when the side are really struggling. I know itís easy with hindsight but I donít think there was one of our supporters anywhere that would have come up with stick with 4-4-2 and BAS and Rose in a double swap for Etete and Kabamba, thereís a reason for that.
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« Reply #203 on: August 22, 2021, 23:22:29 pm »

Some of our fans are turning into 'Enfant terribe' supporters. Extreme personal opinions on players such as BAS, Rose, McGowan and now Nelson now appear to be blamed for the defeat last Saturday. Even McWilliams is now being called into question! The fact is on Saturday we were beaten by the better side particularly in the second half; yet the result was in doubt for 65% of the match. Opinions are sacrosanct on here but not to the point of vindictive personal criticism of players. Clearly something went wrong; maybe selection and tactics were to blame? Genuine criticism is fine such as that echoed by Deepcut on Nelson, this is how it should be; not building up an ever increasing list of players they find culpable to suit their personal agenda! Personally I did not find Nelson, Rose and BAS to be too bad on Saturday but we were just out played at times. The side that beat Coventry away and that which lost to Rochdale where very similar teams so please tell me what went wrong?
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« Reply #204 on: August 22, 2021, 23:24:11 pm »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-pass_rule

At the time I assumed the Ref had decided that the defender did not deliberately pass the ball back to his GK but miss-hit it.

Correct Law 12, the key word is 'deliberate':

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#introduction
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« Reply #205 on: August 22, 2021, 23:24:31 pm »

Look at the highlights on ifollow, definitely off side.

 Grin
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« Reply #206 on: August 23, 2021, 09:01:17 am »

Some of our fans are turning into 'Enfant terribe' supporters. Extreme personal opinions on players such as BAS, Rose, McGowan and now Nelson now appear to be blamed for the defeat last Saturday. Even McWilliams is now being called into question! The fact is on Saturday we were beaten by the better side particularly in the second half; yet the result was in doubt for 65% of the match. Opinions are sacrosanct on here but not to the point of vindictive personal criticism of players. Clearly something went wrong; maybe selection and tactics were to blame? Genuine criticism is fine such as that echoed by Deepcut on Nelson, this is how it should be; not building up an ever increasing list of players they find culpable to suit their personal agenda! Personally I did not find Nelson, Rose and BAS to be too bad on Saturday but we were just out played at times. The side that beat Coventry away and that which lost to Rochdale where very similar teams so please tell me what went wrong?

Good post Evers - a fair point. Iím afraid I see some of myself in that post. I just canít see what Rose has to offer and I donít think I ever will but Ö. However, I donít blame him for the defeat.
I think many contributors have answered your question at the end.
Their manager out thought ours. They bossed midfield with numbers and creativity and their 3 CBs stopped our forwards playing. JB reacted tactically in the last couple of games, he didnít seem able to (or want to) this time round.
Pretty simple really but heh, Iím not a professional football manager so Iíll trust in JB and CC to sort it out for next week.
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« Reply #207 on: August 23, 2021, 09:14:30 am »

Some of our fans are turning into 'Enfant terribe' supporters. Extreme personal opinions on players such as BAS, Rose, McGowan and now Nelson now appear to be blamed for the defeat last Saturday. Even McWilliams is now being called into question! The fact is on Saturday we were beaten by the better side particularly in the second half; yet the result was in doubt for 65% of the match. Opinions are sacrosanct on here but not to the point of vindictive personal criticism of players. Clearly something went wrong; maybe selection and tactics were to blame? Genuine criticism is fine such as that echoed by Deepcut on Nelson, this is how it should be; not building up an ever increasing list of players they find culpable to suit their personal agenda! Personally I did not find Nelson, Rose and BAS to be too bad on Saturday but we were just out played at times. The side that beat Coventry away and that which lost to Rochdale where very similar teams so please tell me what went wrong?

 Grin Grin

So, basically nobody should blame anyone personally, but your personal criticism falls at the feet of Brady?
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« Reply #208 on: August 23, 2021, 10:41:55 am »

I was sceptical before the league season that 4-4-2 can be our go to formation throughout the year with the personnel we have and yesterday solidified my opinion of that. You could have drawn a straight line across our defence, midfield and forwards, no angles what so ever to allow for creativity of shorter passing.

Both strikers were doing the same thing, staying pinned up against the CB's, one of them needed to be able to drop deep to offer something different. Etete was trying to do too much and ended up taking far too many touches, perhaps understandably with how poor the service was too him.

Both midfielders were attempting similar things. Neither offered any sort of angle to receive the ball and when they did get it never attempted to carry it forward or to inject any tempo into the passing. Because the team was so rigid when they did get the ball they were simply going long or backwards. The quality of passing was so so poor throughout the team, but IMO neither of the midfield 2 have the passing ability to play in a 2 for a promotion winning side. The ease with which the ball was passed through them was really surprising also.

Because the gaps between the team were so large and the structure was so rigid players just either went long or would try and do it themselves (like Etete or Pinnock who kept trying to knock it past the full back and run round him, which never worked).

The CB's seemed petrified to bring the ball out and of trying to pass it to the midfield, so many times there was plenty of space but they were so hesitant.

The one glaring gap in our squad currently is a number 10. Pollock could very well be the answer to that as he seemed to feature in that kind of position in pre season. Also would not be against a player of that ilk, can see why we were in for Ryan Broom on loan a little while ago.
Either that or a holding midfielder who can dictate the play and let Shaun just be a destroyer in the centre.

Clearly things to be worked and improved, which can be fixed without doubt. But I was concerned that instead of trying to change the formation and get hold of the ball, we simply changed out strikers for 2 other strikers who's goal records for us are atrocious. Why we also ended up with Hoskins in CM is beyond me.

Still a good start to the season, dont want to go too overboard. But there are some glaring issues that need to be addressed, hopefully as the team continues to gel those will be sorted.

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« Reply #209 on: August 23, 2021, 11:25:27 am »

Grin Grin

So, basically nobody should blame anyone personally, but your personal criticism falls at the feet of Brady?


If you want to offer an opinion try to emulate Ďlordjorgeísí comment above or even Deepcuts opinion on Nelson both free from unpleasant personal comments on players. Where have I directly criticised JB for Sat loss? Not even sure who or what was to blame; tactics or subs? How long have you been an NTFC fan as it appears you cannot handle disappointing results!
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« Reply #210 on: August 23, 2021, 11:40:30 am »

If you want to offer an opinion try to emulate Ďlordjorgeísí comment above or even Deepcuts opinion on Nelson both free from unpleasant personal comments on players. Where have I directly criticised JB for Sat loss? Not even sure who or what was to blame; tactics or subs? How long have you been an NTFC fan as it appears you cannot handle disappointing results!

Thanks for the kind offer.

Just trying to get my head around your lack of opinion first, it sounds like you are not too sure, could be tactics or could be subs. Albeit you appear rather offended at the thought of being accused of criticising JB for the loss, even though he is responsible for the two possibilities you suggest?

It's all well and good criticising other posters comments on individual players, but when you haven't got the confidence to post an opinion it seems pretty worthless don't you think?

If I and everyone else was to follow your lead, there wouldn't be much point in a messageboard.

We could all agree, it could have been the tactics, or subs, players, the crowd, the ref or even the weather conditions. Who knows.
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« Reply #211 on: August 23, 2021, 12:14:24 pm »

Thanks for the kind offer.

Just trying to get my head around your lack of opinion first, it sounds like you are not too sure, could be tactics or could be subs. Albeit you appear rather offended at the thought of being accused of criticising JB for the loss, even though he is responsible for the two possibilities you suggest?

It's all well and good criticising other posters comments on individual players, but when you haven't got the confidence to post an opinion it seems pretty worthless don't you think?

If I and everyone else was to follow your lead, there wouldn't be much point in a messageboard.

We could all agree, it could have been the tactics, or subs, players, the crowd, the ref or even the weather conditions. Who knows.

 Your last sentence says it all as you donít know either Roll Eyes So why the personal derogatory comments on NTFC players? Thatís all Cool 
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« Reply #212 on: August 23, 2021, 12:20:26 pm »

I thought it extremely unlikely Flores would be brought on as a few days previous he was given no chance of being ready along with Sowerby and Harriman. So far Flores has not impressed and seems to be taking a while to settle in, some players take longer than others. I would have liked to see Pollock given a chance as he was quite impressive in his cameo against West Ham and also against Coventry after being moved into a more central role from his wide left starting position.
Brady needs to have a word with Hoskins about the number of stupid bookings he gets. On saturday he got one for pulling on his opponents shirt as he went past him which is something he does far too often. He already has 2 yellows from 3 games whereas Guthrie only has 1 in 4 games and plays in a position where you would expect him to get more yellows than Hoskins.
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« Reply #213 on: August 23, 2021, 12:46:22 pm »

Your last sentence says it all as you donít know either Roll Eyes So why the personal derogatory comments on NTFC players? Thatís all Cool 

For the record, my over riding opinions remain as per my comments from all previous games this season, McGowen and Mills should be nowhere near the side. I'm pleased to see the majority also coming round to this conclusion, hopefully Brady follows suit.

And from Saturday Nelson and Lewis stood out as both being exceptionally poor, as did the managers tactics.

I look forward to hearing your comments on future matters. Remember, don't be afraid to speak your opinion.

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« Reply #214 on: August 23, 2021, 12:57:16 pm »

Because a few other posters criticise the same players as you have I don't think you can claim " the majority are coming round to this conclusion".
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« Reply #215 on: August 23, 2021, 13:04:39 pm »

Look at the highlights on ifollow, definitely off side.

Do the ifollow highlights have better angles than the other highlights?
The one on Youtube I saw doesn't show the pass and scoring player in the same shot. From when he kicked it and applying scientific assumptions and total guess work, he was probably level or even in his own half when the ball left the guys foot. Either way, certainly tight and you shouldn't be relying on springing an offside trap exactly on the half way line.
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« Reply #216 on: August 23, 2021, 13:15:15 pm »

Because a few other posters criticise the same players as you have I don't think you can claim " the majority are coming round to this conclusion".

Absolutely
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« Reply #217 on: August 23, 2021, 13:16:57 pm »

Taking the two strikers off at the same time was criminal (said it at the time, not hindsight speaking)

We were still easily in the game at that time. There was still 30 minutes to go, you'd just take one off, not both.

Problem you had is they then scored and our two best strikers are already off the pitch - ridiculous decision unless other things behind it of course.

Hopefully a lesson learnt...

+
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« Reply #218 on: August 23, 2021, 14:04:04 pm »

Because a few other posters criticise the same players as you have I don't think you can claim " the majority are coming round to this conclusion".

Interesting point to pick up on.

A quick glance from page 7 onwards and I've counted 8 negative comments about either Mills or McGowan from 6 different posters.

I have seen no positive comments for either.

Even a blind dyslexic would class that as the majority.
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« Reply #219 on: August 23, 2021, 14:43:47 pm »

If 6 posters form a majority we can only have 11 posters on the forum, I think you need to rethink your maths. People are far quicker to criticise than compliment. If I remember correctly Mills was given one of the better ratings in the chron' and any full back in division 2 will struggle against a pacy winger as Buchanan used to. They will also often be outpaced as they have to turn and chase whereas the winger is running onto the ball, the same applies to the centre backs dealing with through balls. I would agree McGowan did not have his best game but in other games he has shown good passages of play. You have not offered any alternative for the right back position, Harriman is not fit so who do you play there? Koiki has shown promise and could come in at left back but he offers a threat higher up the pitch, strange that Bristol Rovers did not offer him a new contract given the mess they appear to be in.
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