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NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC

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guest168
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2021, 11:01:20 am »

All I want (and I think the Trust too)  is an owner who cares about the football club.

BOTN: As you rightly say the direction and almost everything else comes from the Directors

So simple question BOTN.  Who is to blame for the state of Sixfields and not fixing the broken windows?

Think you will find that Exeter are doing far far better than us. I notice you didn't mention the windfall money from Goode !!!
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2021, 11:05:44 am »

Tone - The numbers at this stage are unknown so no-one can give you figures of who benefits to what.

I believe that the owners want to split everything down the middle basically - costs and profits with WNC.

I also believe that the Trust are the mechanism as much as KT and his supporters hate it, fortunately WNC are interested in the long term benefits for NTFC as are the Trust.


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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2021, 11:17:14 am »

Tone - The numbers at this stage are unknown so no-one can give you figures of who benefits to what.

I believe that the owners want to split everything down the middle basically - costs and profits with WNC.

I also believe that the Trust are the mechanism as much as KT and his supporters hate it, fortunately WNC are interested in the long term benefits for NTFC as are the Trust.




There are no long term benefits. OK so we might get a ground that will hold 12,000 but we wont fill it. The gates will stay pretty much as they are and in ten years anything that went to the club will have benn squandered on brief forays into L1 and we will be back as BON says in L2 where we belong.
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2021, 11:24:25 am »

Taken from June 2020 accounts

Cash in Bank     Us:  136,265       Exeter:   1,273,755   

Total Assets Less Current Liabilities:    Us: - 4,489,388   Exeter: +2,052,045 

Debts (Creditors within 1 year)  Us 7,596,344    Exeter 2,202,777

Shareholder Funds   Us: -4,660,559    Exeter + 1,652,571

I have not cherry picked to suit, these are from the balance sheets.  Every single one we are not only getting beaten we are being thrashed.

So exactly how are Exeter - supporter owned, in a worse position than us with our want away land developer owners. Please please tell me



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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2021, 11:33:52 am »

There are no long term benefits. OK so we might get a ground that will hold 12,000 but we wont fill it. The gates will stay pretty much as they are and in ten years anything that went to the club will have been squandered on brief forays into L1 and we will be back as BON says in L2 where we belong.

Ahhh there's the difference, some people really hate change and progress. What were people like that called?  Luddites !   Perhaps you should look forward those 10 years and see where we will be cos if we stay with these types of owners, it won't be L1 but Non-league.

So if we played Chelsea we wouldn't fill it?  What about when we played Cardiff Boxing Day?  or sell 2-3k seats to big away following?

The aim is not to sell out every game, it is to make a profit on your investment overtime and bring in cashflow to slowly grow. As the slides show, only at Northampton are we happy to not grow and develop, obsessed with not having empty seats. Millwall are planning to extend despite 1000's of empty seats, almost every club wants to, except us by all accounts.

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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2021, 11:54:46 am »

Tone - The numbers at this stage are unknown so no-one can give you figures of who benefits to what.


But at the time of any signed and sealed deal I assume they will. I am sure there will be caveats. So if if the money was split 50/50% (for arguments sake and after current debts are settled) is everyone happy?
Assuming that was to happen and the owners chose this moment to move on, they still have to find a buyer and they wouldn't leave for this infamous quid considering we'd have to assume that the club would have cash in the bank. I don't see a happy ending, other than us being left debt free with a finished East stand, which appears to be the current best case scenario. KT and co go onto their next project and we can let the local consortium step in, if any of them are still alive.
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« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2021, 12:42:28 pm »

But at the time of any signed and sealed deal I assume they will. I am sure there will be caveats. So if if the money was split 50/50% (for arguments sake and after current debts are settled) is everyone happy?
Assuming that was to happen and the owners chose this moment to move on, they still have to find a buyer and they wouldn't leave for this infamous quid considering we'd have to assume that the club would have cash in the bank. I don't see a happy ending, other than us being left debt free with a finished East stand, which appears to be the current best case scenario. KT and co go onto their next project and we can let the local consortium step in, if any of them are still alive.
The problem you have mate is that KT is NTFC so it’s in his gift how much he takes and how much he leaves NTFC with.
I would prefer a deal with a set percentage ring fenced for the club e.g.20% then the rest gets split 50/50.
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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2021, 12:45:17 pm »

There are no long term benefits. OK so we might get a ground that will hold 12,000 but we wont fill it. The gates will stay pretty much as they are and in ten years anything that went to the club will have benn squandered on brief forays into L1 and we will be back as BON says in L2 where we belong.
Pi55 poor attempt at a wind up.
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« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2021, 13:05:29 pm »

Taken from June 2020 accounts

Cash in Bank     Us:  136,265       Exeter:   1,273,755   

Total Assets Less Current Liabilities:    Us: - 4,489,388   Exeter: +2,052,045 

Debts (Creditors within 1 year)  Us 7,596,344    Exeter 2,202,777

Shareholder Funds   Us: -4,660,559    Exeter + 1,652,571

I have not cherry picked to suit, these are from the balance sheets.  Every single one we are not only getting beaten we are being thrashed.

So exactly how are Exeter - supporter owned, in a worse position than us with our want away land developer owners. Please please tell me





Because they are 13th in the league and we are 5th!?  Grin
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2021, 13:16:22 pm »

"We don't need a bigger capacity - we don't fill it."

Its not just about capacity its about flexibility. 

Remember the woeful attempts at sharing the south stand in the championship season because the stadium wasn't big enough?  You need to provide overflow areas in stadiums, 15% of the capacity for away fans - that takes it down for home fans. 

Also a capacity crowd requires a large away following - we've had many 6000 crowds over the years with little to no away support. Looking at the stats, it tells you we didn't fill the stadium - actually we filled our allocation.

MKDons have the capacity to give away tickets to youngsters to encourage support.

I hate sitting in the East stand and the North.  If there are no seats in the West, I really think twice about going.

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« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2021, 13:22:11 pm »

Pi55 poor attempt at a wind up.

Not a wind up, my opinion(I know you think other people should have these).
Talking of wind ups. Where you were before the Rochdale game?
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« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2021, 13:22:41 pm »

Here is the link to the slides that were sent to WNC for the recent meeting

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/uploads/files/wnc-full-presentation.pdf

I must admit that seems very one sided!

Comparisons etc. found to work in favour.  

One thing I've always struggled to get my head round it the fascination of installing extra seats. I think your presentation states an attendance of c.65%, so what's the point in paying money to have these seats installed if they are never going to be sat in?

Executive boxes, what do we think the demand would be for these?

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« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2021, 13:27:23 pm »

I must admit that seems very one sided!

Comparisons etc. found to work in favour.  

One thing I've always struggled to get my head round it the fascination of installing extra seats. I think your presentation states an attendance of c.65%, so what's the point in paying money to have these seats installed if they are never going to be sat in?

Executive boxes, what do we think the demand would be for these?



Don't you know? If we build it they will come.
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« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2021, 13:37:22 pm »

"We don't need a bigger capacity - we don't fill it."

Its not just about capacity its about flexibility. 

Remember the woeful attempts at sharing the south stand in the championship season because the stadium wasn't big enough?  You need to provide overflow areas in stadiums, 15% of the capacity for away fans - that takes it down for home fans. 

Also a capacity crowd requires a large away following - we've had many 6000 crowds over the years with little to no away support. Looking at the stats, it tells you we didn't fill the stadium - actually we filled our allocation.

MKDons have the capacity to give away tickets to youngsters to encourage support.

I hate sitting in the East stand and the North.  If there are no seats in the West, I really think twice about going.



Is the flexibility box not ticked on the basis that the ground generally 65% occupied?

I note the issues trying to share the away stand 5 / 6 years ago. Not sure that warrants spending money on extra seats just incase once every 5 years someone wants to sit in them.
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« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2021, 13:38:18 pm »

Not a wind up, my opinion(I know you think other people should have these).
Talking of wind ups. Where you were before the Rochdale game?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, they can’t all be correct though.
Got to the ground late and trying to find somewhere to bloody park…… are you still in the UK?
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« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2021, 13:42:16 pm »

I must admit that seems very one sided!

Comparisons etc. found to work in favour.  

One thing I've always struggled to get my head round it the fascination of installing extra seats. I think your presentation states an attendance of c.65%, so what's the point in paying money to have these seats installed if they are never going to be sat in?

Executive boxes, what do we think the demand would be for these?



Cardoza sold all the boxes off plan last time, so yes I think we could easily get rid of them to private individuals (groups) and obviously local businesses.
It’s not just about seats it the view from them, if you offered me the front row in the East I wouldn’t bother, but if the east had an upper tier I would.
It’s no surprise that the west upper is nearly always 90% full.
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« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2021, 13:50:49 pm »

Don't you know? If we build it they will come.

Luckily that's not the case round here. My wife keeps adding seats around the house, luckily nobodys turned up to try and sit in them yet. Long may it continue.
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« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2021, 13:59:40 pm »



Interesting, I didn't realise people would physically refuse to go if for instance only the East stand front row was available.

I guess that's why the likes of theatres operate a tiered ticket structure. Maybe that should be considered to increase the 65% occupancy.
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« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2021, 14:12:02 pm »

Interesting, I didn't realise people would physically refuse to go if for instance only the East stand front row was available.

I guess that's why the likes of theatres operate a tiered ticket structure. Maybe that should be considered to increase the 65% occupancy.

In the early days of Sixfields this did operate, lower wings were cheaper than upper centre for example even though they were in the same stand. Of course North and East used to be priced differently too, but nowadays it’s just one price for match day admission regardless of where you sit.
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« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2021, 14:12:10 pm »

I must admit that seems very one sided!

Comparisons etc. found to work in favour.  

One thing I've always struggled to get my head round it the fascination of installing extra seats. I think your presentation states an attendance of c.65%, so what's the point in paying money to have these seats installed if they are never going to be sat in?

Executive boxes, what do we think the demand would be for these?



The presentation is quite negative and makes poor reading but that's because the closer you look at our owners and the situation, the worse it looks.

Same with the comparisons, unless you compare us to Barrow, Harrogate or Sutton, there are very few we compare favourable to.

Re Capacity sorry but it is linked to your potential. See the slides that show the average capacity of each league, it's not co-incidence it goes up each step. As angrydad rightly says its about flexibility and being able to capitalise. We haven't got them hence our yo-yo League 1 & 2

Plenty of demand for Executive Boxes
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