NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC

[guest1269]

That's all well and good Melly, but Exeter have more money in the bank than we do....

The worrying thing is some people don’t know you are joking (I hope!)

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Exeter is not a good example of fan ownership. As virtually all of their redevelopment has been bankrolled by outside agencies. So if in the case of the current owners leaving, and the Trust taking over, it would be a totally different situation. Exeter aside, as we won’t know how they fair until they have had to stand on their own two feet for some time. Fan ownership, as an expansion and progressive model, HAS NOT WORKED ANYWHERE…. So stop touting it as something that will progress NTFC.

[BackOfTheNet]

Exeter is not a good example of fan ownership. As virtually all of their redevelopment has been bankrolled by outside agencies. So if in the case of the current owners leaving, and the Trust taking over, it would be a totally different situation. Exeter aside, as we won’t know how they fair until they have had to stand on their own two feet for some time. Fan ownership, as an expansion and progressive model, HAS NOT WORKED ANYWHERE…. So stop touting it as something that will progress NTFC.

In fairness, I'd say AFC Wimbledon's return to Plough Lane counts as a success story under fan ownership, not to mention their rise from nothing to a (just about) established League 1 side. They are an isolated example though and were coming from a place where they had absolutely nothing to lose.

[guest1269]

In fairness, I'd say AFC Wimbledon's return to Plough Lane counts as a success story under fan ownership, not to mention their rise from nothing to a (just about) established League 1 side. They are an isolated example though and were coming from a place where they had absolutely nothing to lose.

Completely agree and I think it clearly illustrates fan ownership can ensure survival and a degree of Progression but to sustain Championship or higher presence require finance way beyond this - I personally don’t like it but that’s reality.

[BackOfTheNet]

The worrying thing is some people don’t know you are joking (I hope!)

Don't worry, I was joking. On a serious note about the Exeter example, on a previous occasion when they were mentioned as a shining light I spent quite a bit of time looking at their financial results and found that a few bits didn't really stack up and weren't quite as rosy as they sounded once you scratched the surface. I can't remember the exact details and I'm buggered if I can find the post, so I don't know if a thread got deleted or something and frankly I don't have the time right now to redo the research, but I remember it really looked like a pretty short term sustainability piece that was propped up by a windfall that came from a player sale.

[guest3359]

I have seen a few comments but playing catchup so cant read all the posts. What was the point of the presentation? I missed the 'so what' at the end. Or was it just a chance to put all your grievances to the council without actually asking them to do anything? Are there any minutes or agreed actions after the meeting that can be shared?
These are genuine questions by the way.

[Gen.Disorda]

In fairness, I'd say AFC Wimbledon's return to Plough Lane counts as a success story under fan ownership, not to mention their rise from nothing to a (just about) established League 1 side. They are an isolated example though and were coming from a place where they had absolutely nothing to lose.

I agree but there is the whole romanticised view of the Mcdonald's situation and their close ties with Football manager that have assisted them. I am not sure Northampton would pull the same support from the wider footballing world.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

In fairness, I'd say AFC Wimbledon's return to Plough Lane counts as a success story under fan ownership, not to mention their rise from nothing to a (just about) established League 1 side. They are an isolated example though and were coming from a place where they had absolutely nothing to lose.

Well… I'm pretty sure they are sitting on millions of pounds of loans from Nick Robertson and MSP capital.  

No fan ownership model exist without significant external help… They also crowdfunded a huge amount of money. You don’t need a Trust to do that. Especially one that hasn't managed to raise significant money (relative to that needed in football) ever.

[Manwork04]

I have seen a few comments but playing catchup so cant read all the posts. What was the point of the presentation? I missed the 'so what' at the end. Or was it just a chance to put all your grievances to the council without actually asking them to do anything? Are there any minutes or agreed actions after the meeting that can be shared?
These are genuine questions by the way.

Agree Woody, unless this meeting was closed to the public then MoM should be published.
If not a FoIR could do the trick.
Let’s not fall into the habits of our current owners.

[guest168]

Completely agree and I think it clearly illustrates fan ownership can ensure survival and a degree of Progression but to sustain Championship or higher presence require finance way beyond this - I personally don’t like it but that’s reality.

Where have I or The Trust talked about sustaining Championship or higher football ? 

[guest168]

Don't worry, I was joking. On a serious note about the Exeter example, on a previous occasion when they were mentioned as a shining light I spent quite a bit of time looking at their financial results and found that a few bits didn't really stack up and weren't quite as rosy as they sounded once you scratched the surface. I can't remember the exact details and I'm buggered if I can find the post, so I don't know if a thread got deleted or something and frankly I don't have the time right now to redo the research, but I remember it really looked like a pretty short term sustainability piece that was propped up by a windfall that came from a player sale.

OkBOTN, now spend some time looking at NTFC's accounts and post your thoughts, I would be really interested to know your thoughts.

Can I give you my bank details so you can transfer any funds to me as apparently you think have money in the bank is a negative thing !!!   

[guest168]

I have seen a few comments but playing catchup so cant read all the posts. What was the point of the presentation? I missed the 'so what' at the end. Or was it just a chance to put all your grievances to the council without actually asking them to do anything? Are there any minutes or agreed actions after the meeting that can be shared?
These are genuine questions by the way.

The council meeting was for the Trust to air their concerns to the land deal in the main. Councils across the country help football clubs development, and obviously here they hold the future of NTFC in their hands.

[guest168]

Exeter is not a good example of fan ownership. As virtually all of their redevelopment has been bankrolled by outside agencies. So if in the case of the current owners leaving, and the Trust taking over, it would be a totally different situation. Exeter aside, as we won’t know how they fair until they have had to stand on their own two feet for some time. Fan ownership, as an expansion and progressive model, HAS NOT WORKED ANYWHERE…. So stop touting it as something that will progress NTFC.

How long is a fair amount of time?  Exeter supporters have owned their club since 2003. They had a windfall playing Man U, they were in the process of a bond scheme, which they cancelled as the Man U windfall meant they could move forward without it.

So fan ownership did't help at Wycombe? Sure Wycombe were in the Championship very very recently, remind me when was we there last?

If KT was to remain here, what do you think our highest league position would be?  Would he take us to the Championship, when he could hardly wait for us to return to L2.

[guest168]

Well… I'm pretty sure they are sitting on millions of pounds of loans from Nick Robertson and MSP capital.  

No fan ownership model exist without significant external help… They also crowdfunded a huge amount of money. You don’t need a Trust to do that. Especially one that hasn't managed to raise significant money (relative to that needed in football) ever.

I thought the Trust preferred a hybrid of business and fan ownership like German 50+1. Surely that has to be better than just one man ??

[BackOfTheNet]

OkBOTN, now spending some time looking at NTFC's accounts and post your thoughts, I would be really interested to know your thoughts.

Can I give you my bank details so you can transfer any funds to me as apparently you think have money in the bank is a negative thing !!!   

I'm really wearying of your constant chuntering. We get it, we know your opinion. Other opinions are available.

However, of course having money in the bank isn't a bad thing. It isn't, however, a good yardstick when measuring a football club.

In the case of a fan owned club, that's likely to be it. When it's gone, it's gone and I'm sure I saw a post from you the other day saying "and they had even more money in the bank last year" like that was a good thing rather than a sign they are probably dipping into their reserves to balance the books.

In the case of a privately owned club, why would the owners transfer money into the club's accounts just to have it sitting there? The important thing isn't the bank balance, it's the facility to call down funds from the owners (or elsewhere) when needed.

Probably best to keep your bank details to yourself to be honest, although I can send you the contact details of a nice Nigerian gentleman who keep emailing me if you really want to share them with someone.

[guest3359]

The council meeting was for the Trust to air their concerns to the land deal in the main. Councils across the country help football clubs development, and obviously here they hold the future of NTFC in their hands.

Appreciate that Random. They have every right to do so, and actually agree its right for them to do it as the Supporters Trust.
What I'm not sure though is 'so what'
Do they want the council to reject the proposals, do they want the council to approve the proposals, do they want the council to insist on elements being added to any approvals, do they want the council to push / insist / help facilitate fan ownership, do they want the council to support dialogue on the sale to 5U, do they want the council to insist on open books..... ?
I'm not looking for answers to all of those, they are suggestions.

How did they wrap up... "so councilors, having listened to our presentation, we would appreciate your support to do........!

[pattcobb]

Mods
Please put this in the redev thread so I don't have to read it

[DogMan]

So where's the money?
Re-acquiring is a way of saying we got them back without paying.
Why?
How come?
I wouldn't let someone take £6.68M from me and not return it.

[guest3359]

There's plenty of hard working genuinely interested and skilled NTFC Fans who will help deliver that

Who? I've said for a long time that to get the rest of us on board we need to know who these people are!

Been told several times it wont be the Trust board or the passionate ones on here, it will be skilled business people etc, but who are they?

[guest3338]

So where's the money?
Re-acquiring is a way of saying we got them back without paying.
Why?
How come?
I wouldn't let someone take £6.68M from me and not return it.

Regards slide 27 then Dogman. Was Tom Reed involved?
(just asking because you seem particularly defensive of him).