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Swindon (h)

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« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2021, 16:54:15 pm »

Hoskins was my man of the Match - the other 10 players can make bad decisions and nothing ever gets said but god help Hoskins making one bad decision and he is hung for it.
he brought more attacking chances than many others.


 Grin   Bit strong that Martin to say on hear, you'll upset those of nervous disposition Cool
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« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2021, 17:48:57 pm »

On their Forum one of their fans suggested it was a soft foul at best and that they got lucky at that decision too!

A body check to prevent their player from chasing/closing down on McGowan?
We would have been unhappy for it to not have been given against us.
Sometimes they are missed, unfortunately this one wasn't.
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« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2021, 19:29:39 pm »

FA guidance;

Guidelines for Referees

Referees should ensure that, like assistant referees, the Fourth Official ‘assists’ with their match control. The
primary responsibility for controlling the match remains with the referee who makes the final decision at all
times. In discharging this responsibility it is expected that referees will only seek assistance from the Fourth
Official in respect of significant match changing incidents which have been missed by the other three match
officials and which are clearly visible to the Fourth Official. Such incidents are: 
 red card offences
 yellow card offences (as these could lead to a player been dismissed for a second yellow card)
 penalty area offences (e.g. handball on the goal line to prevent or illegally score a goal)  The Fourth Official must also indicate to the referee when the wrong player is cautioned or dismissed because
of mistaken identity or when a player is not sent off having been seen to be given a second caution.
So nothing about disallowing goals ?  The 4th official was weak, their manager was in his ear from first to last minutes but he didn't have the bottle to report him to chunky in the middle, I'm looking forward to the next time a 4th official makes a decision about an on field incident, I am estimating this will be around 2035.
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« Reply #123 on: September 19, 2021, 19:36:14 pm »

So nothing about disallowing goals ?  The 4th official was weak, their manager was in his ear from first to last minutes but he didn't have the bottle to report him to chunky in the middle, I'm looking forward to the next time a 4th official makes a decision about an on field incident, I am estimating this will be around 2035.

From IFAB:

"The referee, assistant referees and fourth official are the ‘on-field’ match officials."
"...the ‘on-field’ match officials assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
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« Reply #124 on: September 19, 2021, 20:15:07 pm »

No he wasn’t, his final ball and decision making are sub standard even for this division.
He currently sits top of our assists stats with 3 and 2 better than his nearest challenger. This does suggest his final ball is ok and better than the rest.
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« Reply #125 on: September 19, 2021, 20:19:27 pm »

He currently sits top of our assists stats with 3 and 2 better than his nearest challenger. This does suggest his final ball is ok and better than the rest.
Probably why we are one of the leagues lowest scorers.
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« Reply #126 on: September 19, 2021, 20:23:25 pm »

Deepcut has got it correct, the ref was right in taking advice for a foul he didnt see. He played by the rules , so the it was correct to rule the goal out.
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« Reply #127 on: September 19, 2021, 20:24:39 pm »

Probably why we are one of the leagues lowest scorers.
I think our forwards are the problem. The supply has definitely improved….. however
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« Reply #128 on: September 19, 2021, 21:21:50 pm »

Deepcut has got it correct, the ref was right in taking advice for a foul he didnt see. He played by the rules , so the it was correct to rule the goal out.

I think the point is being missed. No one says the ref can’t ask who the fcuk he wants to for advice.
I had pretty much the same view (but better) that the 4th official had - I was a lot higher up but same angle. We all saw the defender go down but not why he went down.
Their managers were then crawling all over (mentally and physically) the easily influenced official and all of a sudden he saw everything clearly.
At best it was a touch of pushy shovey that the Swindon defender milked when he saw the position he’d left himself in. The goal was disallowed due to extreme pressure placed on a weak official.
I know these things even themselves out over the season but please have the good grace to admit that this was a very rare occurrence of over zealous team managers / 4th official intervening to cost our team 2 important points!
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« Reply #129 on: September 19, 2021, 21:37:28 pm »

I think the point is being missed. No one says the ref can’t ask who the fcuk he wants to for advice.
I had pretty much the same view (but better) that the 4th official had - I was a lot higher up but same angle. We all saw the defender go down but not why he went down.
Their managers were then crawling all over (mentally and physically) the easily influenced official and all of a sudden he saw everything clearly.
At best it was a touch of pushy shovey that the Swindon defender milked when he saw the position he’d left himself in. The goal was disallowed due to extreme pressure placed on a weak official.
I know these things even themselves out over the season but please have the good grace to admit that this was a very rare occurrence of over zealous team managers / 4th official intervening to cost our team 2 important points!
This!
We seem to be going from the 'ref is in a difficult position blah blah' mantra for years...to Deepcut's refs are beyond reproach and never wrong stance!

He was!

On top of Swindon's 3pts (suspended) deduction, following trouble at Stevenage, Sixfields Tavern and several bottles and objects thrown onto the pitch yesterday, maybe another deduction...given a financial penalty will serve little use!
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« Reply #130 on: September 19, 2021, 22:34:34 pm »

Coolcat, thought it was strange that Swindon away strip is in the colours of their rivals !!
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« Reply #131 on: September 19, 2021, 23:29:31 pm »

Deepcut has got it correct, the ref was right in taking advice for a foul he didnt see. He played by the rules , so the it was correct to rule the goal out.

Technically Deepo might be right but as one Swindon fan described it as an opportunistic dive; the two players came together so he fell over! The guy who fell over was booed by the NorthEnd and West Stand for the rest of the game. If that had been the other way round………. On the other hand will ask Jim and his bunch of pals was it a foul or not! Agree it’s all irrelevant the goal was disallowed so that’s it.
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« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2021, 04:47:38 am »

From IFAB:

"The referee, assistant referees and fourth official are the ‘on-field’ match officials."
"...the ‘on-field’ match officials assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
Do you mind. It’s very cathartic to abuse and criticise match officials and you’re ruining it.
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« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2021, 07:04:13 am »

The Hoskins debate rolls on and i am not as anti Hoskins as some but ….
He was poor on Saturday and apart from the corner that led to the goal and the block at the end , did nothing of consequence . Don’t mistake having plenty of the ball for having a good game - you have to do something with it .
He was put through by Koiki and should have scored and had numerous chances to cross and failed to do so.
The wider issue is that none of our so called wide players , including Pinnock and Connelly are doing too much . It may be because they are playing very narrow and having to defend a lot but at the moment all three of them are luxury players that contribute little .
I think we are better with full backs pushing on and extra strength in midfield .
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« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2021, 07:21:18 am »

The Hoskins debate rolls on and i am not as anti Hoskins as some but ….
He was poor on Saturday and apart from the corner that led to the goal and the block at the end , did nothing of consequence . Don’t mistake having plenty of the ball for having a good game - you have to do something with it .
He was put through by Koiki and should have scored and had numerous chances to cross and failed to do so.
The wider issue is that none of our so called wide players , including Pinnock and Connelly are doing too much . It may be because they are playing very narrow and having to defend a lot but at the moment all three of them are luxury players that contribute little .
I think we are better with full backs pushing on and extra strength in midfield .

Spot on B&S totally agree, Pinnock defensively is awful and so is Connolly so I guess that’s why our little scamp Super Sam plays endlessly.
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« Reply #135 on: September 20, 2021, 07:47:07 am »

From IFAB:

"The referee, assistant referees and fourth official are the ‘on-field’ match officials."
"...the ‘on-field’ match officials assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
So the 4th official, who was a good 40 yards away, had a better view than the lino, who had an unobstructed 15 yard view or the ref 10 yards away. Jim Hall must sit near me because I had the same view as him and the 4th official and to me it looked as exactly as described by Jim.
    Time to forget this "Refs Union" Deepcut, we know they make mistakes, just like everyone in all walks of life, but it's much better for people to say they got it wrong, when they have, rather than churn out they same "He was right" when everybody can see he wasn't.
    We all know that Pete Walton was a top ref and a good Cobblers fan, but on TV, virtually everyone says the same about him.

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« Reply #136 on: September 20, 2021, 08:39:55 am »

So the 4th official, who was a good 40 yards away, had a better view than the lino, who had an unobstructed 15 yard view or the ref 10 yards away. Jim Hall must sit near me because I had the same view as him and the 4th official and to me it looked as exactly as described by Jim.
    Time to forget this "Refs Union" Deepcut, we know they make mistakes, just like everyone in all walks of life, but it's much better for people to say they got it wrong, when they have, rather than churn out they same "He was right" when everybody can see he wasn't.
    We all know that Pete Walton was a top ref and a good Cobblers fan, but on TV, virtually everyone says the same about him.



I know that Refereeing decisions are contentious and invite debate and you also know that I am not always 100% in favour of some of the performances and decisions that we have had to 'accept', as we have discussed them previously.
From my own experiences, I try and provide reasons and justifications why certain decisions have been made by the officials to explain where/why those decisions have been made and provide a better understanding from the officials perspective. 
It doesn't mean that I always agree with them.

Everything that I have stated following this has been from my perspective having had the benefit of seeing another video, which is a wider angle and includes the whole incident from start to finish.  In my opinion the Referee was correct.  Our player, in my opinion, 'deliberately' blocked their player, in fact it looked like a very good training ground move to allow McGowan a free run, unfortunately it was thwarted by the officials.

You'd be surprised at the amount of 'talk' that goes on over the comms between the four officials during a game that you never have any visual knowledge of, the game is 'Refereed' by all four officials not just the man in the middle, he's just the one with the whistle who has to make the ultimate decision.  Officials only have the benefit of the Mark 1 eyeball, not the many camera's and differing angles that are provided by TV.  There are sometimes incidents immediately in front of them that are missed because they were concentrating on the next passage of play.  But with four sets of eyes, it is hoped that the majority of incidents are witnessed.

I believe that the scenario may have played out something like this: the Referee had players between him and the incident and the AR would have been concentrating on any potential offsides. The Referee never saw the incident or only probably saw it briefly. After the goal was scored, the referee (over the comms) asked if anyone had seen what the Swindon player went down for, the 4th Official was probably the only one who saw it clearly from his position 25-30 yds away, which is considered a credible distance, and provided his version of the incident.  The referee accepted it and subsequently disallowed the goal.

As I said previously I don't enjoy it when decisions go against us, but if it was the other way, we would have been jumping up and down if the goal wasn't disallowed.
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« Reply #137 on: September 20, 2021, 08:51:02 am »

So the 4th official, who was a good 40 yards away, had a better view than the lino, who had an unobstructed 15 yard view or the ref 10 yards away. Jim Hall must sit near me because I had the same view as him and the 4th official and to me it looked as exactly as described by Jim.
    Time to forget this "Refs Union" Deepcut, we know they make mistakes, just like everyone in all walks of life, but it's much better for people to say they got it wrong, when they have, rather than churn out they same "He was right" when everybody can see he wasn't.
    We all know that Pete Walton was a top ref and a good Cobblers fan, but on TV, virtually everyone says the same about him.


I found myself agreeing with a lot of Pete Waltons calls over the summer, but I was astonished at some of the decisions the officials at VAR came up this weekend with during the premiership games.
...It's not often I agree almost entirely with any one pundit either but if Dion Dublin is available to ref and not too old, get him signed up, or let's have him as out next manager.
Deepcut, I appreciate your input and explanations of referring decisions at our level but if you watch any coverage of the higher divisions, what do you think to the performances of the officials generally at VAR?
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« Reply #138 on: September 20, 2021, 08:57:59 am »

Coolcat, thought it was strange that Swindon away strip is in the colours of their rivals !!
Interestingly (maybe) I remember back in 84 at the County Ground (Northampton) Swindon turned up looking for revenge following the previous season's antics of Northampton running riot on and off the pitch in Wiltshire.
Their away shirts were yellow...casual Pringle and Lacoste clearly hadn't quite reached Wiltshire back then, with a group of Yellow shirted skins running through the Grovesnor Centre and some getting nicked on the Spion Kop.
Some idiot suggested Swindon and Oxford had teamed up and was serious!  Grin Grin  Grin

* David Axcell was ref - talking to him prior to game about Swansea fans getting literally thrown onto the pitch by Millwall at the Den.

** Cobblers won

*** The return game at the County Ground (Swindon) saw almost every wall daubed with 'NTFC die' and 'How's your White Elephant?' graffiti.
Six of us attacked on return to station by among other Swindon lads (Pringle had just arrived) were Stroud based Swindon...who fortunately, were kept by the OB from boarding the same train as us!
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« Reply #139 on: September 20, 2021, 09:55:37 am »

Interestingly (maybe) I remember back in 84 at the County Ground (Northampton) Swindon turned up looking for revenge following the previous season's antics of Northampton running riot on and off the pitch in Wiltshire.
Their away shirts were yellow...casual Pringle and Lacoste clearly hadn't quite reached Wiltshire back then, with a group of Yellow shirted skins running through the Grovesnor Centre and some getting nicked on the Spion Kop.
Some idiot suggested Swindon and Oxford had teamed up and was serious!  Grin Grin  Grin

* David Axcell was ref - talking to him prior to game about Swansea fans getting literally thrown onto the pitch by Millwall at the Den.

** Cobblers won

*** The return game at the County Ground (Swindon) saw almost every wall daubed with 'NTFC die' and 'How's your White Elephant?' graffiti.
Six of us attacked on return to station by among other Swindon lads (Pringle had just arrived) were Stroud based Swindon...who fortunately, were kept by the OB from boarding the same train as us!
Let me tell you Coolcat, yellow is back in as a colour and big for this year. I myself have been seen wearing my strikingly different yellow hoodie this season at a home game. Not sure how I anticipated this trend so early.
Bradford '82. Got attacked outside of a chip shop whilst visiting my mate who was at university there. 15 (ish) against 2 wasn't good odds especially when you factor in the element of surprise...they came at us from behind. We never stood a chance. My mate needed a brain scan for a heavily busted up face but fortunately the result showed he had got away relatively lightly.
All our attackers could utter whilst sticking the boot in was 'you're not from Bradford'. Correct we weren't even though my mate was upto date with his rent. We were waiting for a pub the other side of the road to open (they closed during the day in those times) where we were going to watch a local band.
So far as I know it had nothing to do with football or racism or anything else. Completely random and bizarre. Never did see the band (No idea who they were now, but I can remember it wasn't New Model Army as we had been mixing it with them the night before).
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