TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2022, 16:16:45 pm » |
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It would be interesting to see how our more successful/exciting managers measure up to those stats for instance Wilder and Carr and how their own stats got impacted by the less successful periods when they were in charge.
Your wish is my command. Figures rounded. Graham Carr - 1.47pts - 1.58 goals Kevin Wilson - 1.42pts - 1.19 goals Colin Calderwood - 1.69pts - 1.42 goals Chris Wilder - 1.68pts - 1.52 goals Bill Dodgin - 1.46pts - 1.5 goals.
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It's all about balance.
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DrillingCobbler
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2022, 17:07:19 pm » |
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Your wish is my command. Figures rounded.
Graham Carr - 1.47pts - 1.58 goals Kevin Wilson - 1.42pts - 1.19 goals Colin Calderwood - 1.69pts - 1.42 goals Chris Wilder - 1.68pts - 1.52 goals Bill Dodgin - 1.46pts - 1.5 goals.
Do you have a list of managerial stats outside of the 4th tier? Be bloody interesting to see them! As its historically been very difficult for any Cobblers manager (even Bowen who crashed back down) to get any sustained level of success in tier3 (or the 4 years I think) we were above that level... My guess would be that Dave Bowen would be miles ahead...then possibly Carr in 2nd place? Not many managers have hung around for long once they've got us promoted, either sacked or head hunted!
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2022, 07:16:34 am » |
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Do you have a list of managerial stats outside of the 4th tier? Be bloody interesting to see them! As its historically been very difficult for any Cobblers manager (even Bowen who crashed back down) to get any sustained level of success in tier3 (or the 4 years I think) we were above that level...
My guess would be that Dave Bowen would be miles ahead...then possibly Carr in 2nd place? Not many managers have hung around for long once they've got us promoted, either sacked or head hunted!
You'd be wrong then; it would be Herbert Chapman by a country mile. You have to remember when he was our manager in the Southern League that was the top division in the south and contained the likes of Tottenham, West Ham, QPR, Watford, Southampton, Brighton, Fulham, etc. Unless you are just asking since the fourth tier was formed in 1958 but that sort of ignores over 60 years of our history including being Champions.
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It's all about balance.
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2022, 10:07:56 am » |
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Okay Drilling, I've done the research for you. The thing that surprised me most was the number of managers we've had in divisions above Tier 4. Before you read on, have a guess. Anyway, based on points per game in League matches only above Tier 4 and since 1958/9, this is the table. Manager (pts per game) 1) Dave Bowen (1.43) 2) Dean Austin (1.4) 3) Ian Sampson (1.33) 4) Ian Atkins (1.293) 5) Stuart Gray (1.292) 6) Graham Carr (1.26) 7) Committee (1.24) Kevan Broadhurst (1.16) 9) Rob Page (1.15) 10) Kevin Wilson (1.13) 11) John Gorman (1.09) 12) Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (1.08) 13) Jon Brady (1.05) 14) Justin Edinburgh (1) 15) Keith Curle (0.9) 16) Pat Crerand (0.7) 17) Martin Wilkinson (0.6) 18) Terry Fenwick (0.3) 19) Paul Wilkinson (0) You're welcome.
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It's all about balance.
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OCoole
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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2022, 10:29:27 am » |
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Okay Drilling, I've done the research for you. The thing that surprised me most was the number of managers we've had in divisions above Tier 4. Before you read on, have a guess. Anyway, based on points per game in League matches only above Tier 4 and since 1958/9, this is the table. Manager (pts per game) 1) Dave Bowen (1.43) 2) Dean Austin (1.4) 3) Ian Sampson (1.33) 4) Ian Atkins (1.293) 5) Stuart Gray (1.292) 6) Graham Carr (1.26) 7) Committee (1.24) Kevan Broadhurst (1.16) 9) Rob Page (1.15) 10) Kevin Wilson (1.13) 11) John Gorman (1.09) 12) Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (1.08) 13) Jon Brady (1.05) 14) Justin Edinburgh (1) 15) Keith Curle (0.9) 16) Pat Crerand (0.7) 17) Martin Wilkinson (0.6) 18) Terry Fenwick (0.3) 19) Paul Wilkinson (0) You're welcome. Nice work. I’d argue that Dean Austin probably shouldn’t feature on this list given he had such few games (sample size too small for calculated averages to be meaningful). Also think that it reflects harshly on Brady who had to work with one of the worst squads this club has surely ever had in the 3rd tier. I saw the overall points per game comparison of Curle and Brady earlier and for the reason just mentioned, I don’t think it’s a fair fight. Curle came into the job earlier than Brady did in his respective start and inherited a squad much more fit to compete at the level (League Two) than Brady’s inherited side in League One. Curle had players such as Crooks, Van Veen, Turnbull, Pierre, etc., and whilst you could reasonably argue it was a disjointed squad that lacked character, it is also fair to say that it had a lot of quality for a L2 side. I don’t think that you could say the same for the team that Brady inherited, and if they had a Liam Roberts or Lee Burge in goal rather than Mitchell, he probably would have kept them up against all odds that season too. Brady is clearly the better manager of the two for me.
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MCHammer
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2022, 10:56:40 am » |
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Your wish is my command. Figures rounded.
Graham Carr - 1.47pts - 1.58 goals Kevin Wilson - 1.42pts - 1.19 goals Colin Calderwood - 1.69pts - 1.42 goals Chris Wilder - 1.68pts - 1.52 goals Bill Dodgin - 1.46pts - 1.5 goals.
Thanks for taking the time to do that and the subsequent stuff. Really interesting. I guess it shows from a pts perspective that to finish high you leave on a promotion? I'd imagine Graham Carr and Ian Atkins would both be people that ended much higher if they had moved on rather than managing us in league one through the whole of a relegation season. The goalscoring average seems to be the one that reflects the entertainment value rather than pts which I guess you would expect. Wilder and Carr standing out obviously. Carrs stands out significantly if you factor in there are two seasons, one being a relegation, in league one. Can't comment on Dodgin as just before my time. Re the original point. Looks like Brady has some way to go yet but obviously that's an active story and I'd imagine a promotion at some stage along with the goals we are currently scoring will make a big difference...especially if he leaves immediately after promotion.
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MCHammer
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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2022, 11:03:21 am » |
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Okay Drilling, I've done the research for you. The thing that surprised me most was the number of managers we've had in divisions above Tier 4. Before you read on, have a guess. Anyway, based on points per game in League matches only above Tier 4 and since 1958/9, this is the table. Manager (pts per game) 1) Dave Bowen (1.43) 2) Dean Austin (1.4) 3) Ian Sampson (1.33) 4) Ian Atkins (1.293) 5) Stuart Gray (1.292) 6) Graham Carr (1.26) 7) Committee (1.24) Kevan Broadhurst (1.16) 9) Rob Page (1.15) 10) Kevin Wilson (1.13) 11) John Gorman (1.09) 12) Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (1.08) 13) Jon Brady (1.05) 14) Justin Edinburgh (1) 15) Keith Curle (0.9) 16) Pat Crerand (0.7) 17) Martin Wilkinson (0.6) 18) Terry Fenwick (0.3) 19) Paul Wilkinson (0) You're welcome. Thanks again for this. I was thinking along the same lines as Drilling but didn't have the cheek to ask! These stats for me tell the story of our club. We just have never been league one standard have we. Odd manager in there that had one good season but ultimately most failed and ended up sacked or relegated. Tough job managing this club in league one isn't it!
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MCHammer
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2022, 11:14:06 am » |
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Nice work. I’d argue that Dean Austin probably shouldn’t feature on this list given he had such few games (sample size too small for calculated averages to be meaningful).
Also think that it reflects harshly on Brady who had to work with one of the worst squads this club has surely ever had in the 3rd tier. I saw the overall points per game comparison of Curle and Brady earlier and for the reason just mentioned, I don’t think it’s a fair fight. Curle came into the job earlier than Brady did in his respective start and inherited a squad much more fit to compete at the level (League Two) than Brady’s inherited side in League One. Curle had players such as Crooks, Van Veen, Turnbull, Pierre, etc., and whilst you could reasonably argue it was a disjointed squad that lacked character, it is also fair to say that it had a lot of quality for a L2 side. I don’t think that you could say the same for the team that Brady inherited, and if they had a Liam Roberts or Lee Burge in goal rather than Mitchell, he probably would have kept them up against all odds that season too. Brady is clearly the better manager of the two for me.
Can't believe I'm going to do this but to defend Curle a little bit here. When he came in we were a shambles. He had a massive job to do to get us sorted, cut and reset the playing budget and get some points on the board. I don't think many including myself loved the style of football but there was a time he did what he had to do and the stats show he did it pretty effectively. Agree about Brady in league one though. Probably hurting his overall pts per game percentage quite badly as I hadn't realised he had managed quite so many games in league one. Having said that probably fortunate for him and us us he did get relegated as looking at the rest of the stats he probably wouldn't be in a job and his stats would be one of the worst.
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everbrite
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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2022, 09:17:04 am » |
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Success surely would be getting promoted not relegated. However, Brady made his own promise. 'Bums off seats' or some such nonsense. I have yet to see that.
You have obviously failed or forgotten to consider the adjective ‘subjective’ . Strange omission from an educated Corbynisto!
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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606 Parklands_Cobbler
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2022, 16:18:29 pm » |
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seems very unlikely considering how settled he and his family are in the county. if a team like cov, watford etc come along at some point then i would be slightly more worried.
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guest2995
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2022, 20:22:26 pm » |
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it’s only a matter of time before we lose JB if we continue to improve on a shoestring I think it would have to be a decent sized club close to home or a premiership development role, close to home .
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Tabasco Kid
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2022, 20:53:18 pm » |
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Probably the same source that claimed Calderwood was off to Swansea, a few months back.
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Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
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Welly Cobb
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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2022, 21:41:58 pm » |
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I'd be surprised if there was anything in it, but if he keeps it up then it will be come inevitable, much like Hoskins if he keeps up his goal scoring form.
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2022, 16:23:21 pm » |
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This is getting to be quite impressive Mr Brady.
All-time Cobblers Managers Table based on points per game. 1st Jack Jennings (3) 2nd Herbert Chapman (1.70) 3rd Colin Calderwood (1.69) 4th Chris Wilder (1.67) 5th Jack Tresadern (1.58) 6th Fred Lessons (1.55) 7th Bob Dennison (1.50) 8th Jon Brady (1.49) 9th Syd Puddefoot (1.48) 10th Graham Carr (1.46)
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It's all about balance.
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2022, 09:31:13 am » |
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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guest3529
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2022, 15:48:24 pm » |
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Bingers
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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2022, 18:55:19 pm » |
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I was surprised Mark Robins has done 5 years at Coventry, he always seemed to be moving on earlier in his career. 13 years is impressive though.
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The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2015
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itsme
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2022, 22:18:34 pm » |
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I was surprised Mark Robins has done 5 years at Coventry, he always seemed to be moving on earlier in his career.
13 years is impressive though.
Helps that his dad owns the club
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Bingers
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« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2022, 21:02:07 pm » |
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Helps that his dad owns the club
Yes, but if my son presided over a disastrous run of defeats, he'd be out on his ear. And if he ever managed to play or manage s***boro, he'd be ex-communicated from the family and written out of my will. One has standards.
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The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2015
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