Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Allow me Melly, the Trust, quite rightly, are asking for a roadmap for the club, where are we going and how are we going to get there with what checks and balances.
KT has been sat on the pot for SIX years it’s time he produced or got off.

Quite within its rights to do so and fair enough Manny. All I’m asking for is some clarification around the Trusts preference and objectives.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

I thought the statement from the Trust was fair enough and communicated the thoughts of many on here. Without being cruel the owners response could very well be “so what”. Unfortunately the Trust has no power at this point in time, that’s not a criticism just a fact. Whilst the club should be aware of the position of the Trust it needs to come up with a plan to galvanise support and increase its influence possibly by aligning itself with other supporters groups. To repeat that means increasing membership, galvanising that membership and moving forward with a common goal and purpose.

Will this work? I don’t know, but frankly it’s all the Trust has and to be fair perhaps all this is in the pipeline. I hope so. I put up some questions for GPC on the 15th May in the Trust section of the forum and am interested to hear the views of Simon and the Trust at some point. The Trust in my opinion has to change its  philosophy and approach if it wants to increase its chances of making a difference because my view is that it is too insular at the moment and viewed by too many of its membership as acting on the whims and impulse  of its board rather than being truly representative of the support base. This is not a criticism just a plea for the Trust to review its approach with the goal of becoming more influential.

The concern about the debt of the club has always been an irrelevance to me. As an owner of businesses I have often put considerable sums into the various entities to develop and grow the Group in the form of Directors loans. However, if they fail I’ve done my money and that’s it. There’s no consequence other than I’m broke. If the owners of NTFC call in the debt what does that mean, I would suggest not much more than if they decide to stop putting money in full stop. Directors loans are a complete irrelevance when it comes to financial stability of an organisation, trust me I know.

However, why the apparent contradiction in the the Trust statement. On the one hand they appear to be demanding an increase in capital expenditure. On the other they seem to be expressing concern about the level of debt. Which is it, are we asking for an increase in debt or a reduction because you can’t have both. It just seems that the Trust are critical of the strategy of the board of NTFC, but whichever action the take they will be open to attack for failing to address certain elements of the concerns raised in the statement. A kind of damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario. I don’t mean this as a criticism and perhaps I am reading this wrong but what exactly are the Trust asking for, an increase in expenditure and debt or a reduction? Would it be possible for the Trust to clarify the preference. All I’m asking for is the opportunity to stop calling them The Trust, and to start calling them “us”.

Ok..... both Trust hat and fan hat on here!

Your first paragraph, I agree! The Club could indeed say that as is their prerogative .....they are not obliged to respond at all really are they?
I've tried to address or at least outline some of the other points in my reply to your post in the other section.

Second para...again, agree in part! See the other post. "The Trust needs to change its philosophy"...... I think that is what's happening. Perhaps "we" haven't asked the questions, perhaps "we" have sat around for too long with nothing happening? At least now "we" have woken up and are asking the questions.
As for being "insular"....depends how you look at this! The Trust has 600 and odd members, there are 8 or so of us on the board who seem active....the rest of the membership?? It's fair to say we don't have any questions asked of us, very little communication FROM members! I totally get what youre saying about engagement, but its a two way street surely? Todays statement went out, as i've said in another post the questions that have been asked of the Chairman (at his request and not answered) were not just 25 questions from the board members. We have taken on board some of the views from the various supporters groups/pages and asked questions around the topics raised. As I've said the Trust does need to up its game with regards to engagement but then so does the wider fanbase (IMO)

Third para.....you probably know more than me! However, as the fan the way I see this going is that IF the land deal comes off, the first thing to be paid back is those Directors loans.....the second thing may be the completion of the stand....add those two together and thats £10m gone before you see any progress anywhere else, be it the rest of the ground, improved transfer/wage budget etc. If the land deal does not come off then what? As you say, it could just be that they stop putting money in full stop. It doesn't strike me that they (KT/DB) are just going to walk away and write off that large sum of money using the "oh well, i've done my money" analogy!

Fourth para....i'm not sure that "we" are demanding an increase in capital expenditure.....we might be asking for money to be spent on the ground, on measures that will eventually bring in more money to the club. How does it normally work? A club builds a new stand, it takes years to pay off the expenditure doesn't it? What other way round that is there? Its true that fans will always want more.....for example they might want the transfer budget increased, or they might want a club to go out and spend half a million on a player, but put the price of hotdogs up 20p and there's uproar!
Again, i'm not sure what the answer is here....its very hard to turn a profit in football, especially at our level, either you unearth a gem and sell him on for big money or you put the prices up, cut the wage budget right back and actually bring in more than you spend.....
I don't think anyone would deny that the ground needs a revamp, and that will cost money, that makes it expenditure, but whats the alternative? Do nothing and let it decay for another few years? Those that answered the Trust survey ranked ground improvements fairly highly on their list of "wants" so the questions have been asked.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Fan hat on here.....

What has struck me today is the lack of response to the Trust statement.

As far as I can see that statement was reproduced on the Trust FB page, the Hotelenders FB page, The Shoe Army FB page, the NTFC Unofficial FB page, its been in the Chronicle, it was posted on Twitter and i'm guessing in other places too.

There are a handful of replies, comments, call it what you will across all of those outlets. Its as if nobody is bothered! Now I know, or at least I hope that is not true.....but maybe its just me.....I expected more of a debate. There seems to be no engagement at all......

[Carton Lid]

There’s no fishing here. I’m absolutely clear on what I say. If you haven’t got the bottle to put up some proof, shut up.

So do you still stand by this statement, which I've twice asked you to substantiate, with no answer from yourself, or is it yet another post that when you get caught out, you claim it's just a joke ?
    Do you think it might be an idea that at the bottom of each of your posts, you let us know if it's a joke/lie, or if it's the truth because it's difficult to distinguish with most of the stuff you come out with.
    Again I repeat, surely if all you want to do is behave like a schoolboy by posting to get a reaction, maybe it's time to get a grown up to moderate this section 

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Ok..... both Trust hat and fan hat on here!

Your first paragraph, I agree! The Club could indeed say that as is their prerogative .....they are not obliged to respond at all really are they?
I've tried to address or at least outline some of the other points in my reply to your post in the other section.

Second para...again, agree in part! See the other post. "The Trust needs to change its philosophy"...... I think that is what's happening. Perhaps "we" haven't asked the questions, perhaps "we" have sat around for too long with nothing happening? At least now "we" have woken up and are asking the questions.
As for being "insular"....depends how you look at this! The Trust has 600 and odd members, there are 8 or so of us on the board who seem active....the rest of the membership?? It's fair to say we don't have any questions asked of us, very little communication FROM members! I totally get what youre saying about engagement, but its a two way street surely? Todays statement went out, as i've said in another post the questions that have been asked of the Chairman (at his request and not answered) were not just 25 questions from the board members. We have taken on board some of the views from the various supporters groups/pages and asked questions around the topics raised. As I've said the Trust does need to up its game with regards to engagement but then so does the wider fanbase (IMO)

Third para.....you probably know more than me! However, as the fan the way I see this going is that IF the land deal comes off, the first thing to be paid back is those Directors loans.....the second thing may be the completion of the stand....add those two together and thats £10m gone before you see any progress anywhere else, be it the rest of the ground, improved transfer/wage budget etc. If the land deal does not come off then what? As you say, it could just be that they stop putting money in full stop. It doesn't strike me that they (KT/DB) are just going to walk away and write off that large sum of money using the "oh well, i've done my money" analogy!

Fourth para....i'm not sure that "we" are demanding an increase in capital expenditure.....we might be asking for money to be spent on the ground, on measures that will eventually bring in more money to the club. How does it normally work? A club builds a new stand, it takes years to pay off the expenditure doesn't it? What other way round that is there? Its true that fans will always want more.....for example they might want the transfer budget increased, or they might want a club to go out and spend half a million on a player, but put the price of hotdogs up 20p and there's uproar!
Again, i'm not sure what the answer is here....its very hard to turn a profit in football, especially at our level, either you unearth a gem and sell him on for big money or you put the prices up, cut the wage budget right back and actually bring in more than you spend.....
I don't think anyone would deny that the ground needs a revamp, and that will cost money, that makes it expenditure, but whats the alternative? Do nothing and let it decay for another few years? Those that answered the Trust survey ranked ground improvements fairly highly on their list of "wants" so the questions have been asked.

Thanks for the reply GPC, the points you raise are all of course reasoned and valid. From my perspective I suppose my concern is that the Trust is the most realistic vehicle for change so if it fails then we are probably in for more of the same. In essence I believe the Trust should take the initiative and drive the process for engagement, but ultimately it has to be a 2,way street as you say. With regards to the Directors loans they could be repaid, however even if there was no loan there would be nothing to stop them just taking any revenue from the land as profit, other than a greater tax liability. Either way does that really make a difference, the club still ends up with how much they want it to end up with?

[guest3429]

Fourth para....i'm not sure that "we" are demanding an increase in capital expenditure.....we might be asking for money to be spent on the ground, on measures that will eventually bring in more money to the club. How does it normally work? A club builds a new stand, it takes years to pay off the expenditure doesn't it? What other way round that is there? Its true that fans will always want more.....for example they might want the transfer budget increased, or they might want a club to go out and spend half a million on a player, but put the price of hotdogs up 20p and there's uproar!
Again, i'm not sure what the answer is here....its very hard to turn a profit in football, especially at our level, either you unearth a gem and sell him on for big money or you put the prices up, cut the wage budget right back and actually bring in more than you spend.....
I don't think anyone would deny that the ground needs a revamp, and that will cost money, that makes it expenditure, but whats the alternative? Do nothing and let it decay for another few years? Those that answered the Trust survey ranked ground improvements fairly highly on their list of "wants" so the questions have been asked.

Just sidestepping the all consuming politics for a moment, but what actually is the plan for the area? This is the fundamental question as how is anything financed?

Has anybody been given any indication, grand plan, scheme, desire, whisper, whatever for the surrounding area or do the district planners really only drink tea? Without even the faintest idea let alone a "road map" to what the council want to achieve with the Sixfields area it will just sit and decay even further.

You cant sell an idea that's not there!

What do you want council? Hotel, Casino, Restaurants, warehouses, whorehouses, doghouses? What??? Or is the plan as I guess it is from this forward, progressive town, turn it into car parking and wait and see what happens.

When the squabbling is over between club, trust, council, what are you all going to do?

[Zen Master]

 I agree with many of the points made from various posters and mostly there is agreement that things need to change and the rate of increased debt is a concern along with the glaringly obvious structural needs to the ground holding progress back.
 
 I’m not sure how we compare to other clubs in the lower divisions but we seem a disparate group of fans overall. This message board, several different Facebook groups, different travel clubs, several different twitter groups and then somewhere amongst it the Trust.
 I’m sure the common ground is a “love” for the more often than not football and entertainment drudgery served up. However the core group keeps coming back for more.
 What seems to be missing is any sense of unity between all the groups.
I would have rather seen an overall supportive statement from all the groups saying we stand united for the progression of the club both on and off the field and that key members are happy to form part of a cross interest working group with club and council for the greater good.
 
 

[guest3429]

I agree with many of the points made from various posters and mostly there is agreement that things need to change and the rate of increased debt is a concern along with the glaringly obvious structural needs to the ground holding progress back.
 
 I’m not sure how we compare to other clubs in the lower divisions but we seem a disparate group of fans overall. This message board, several different Facebook groups, different travel clubs, several different twitter groups and then somewhere amongst it the Trust.
 I’m sure the common ground is a “love” for the more often than not football and entertainment drudgery served up. However the core group keeps coming back for more.
 What seems to be missing is any sense of unity between all the groups.
I would have rather seen an overall supportive statement from all the groups saying we stand united for the progression of the club both on and off the field and that key members are happy to form part of a cross interest working group with club and council for the greater good.

True, a disparate group, and it all sounds a little tree hugging to me, getting groups together etc. Why not Tick Tock too! Great if you want some jumpers for goal posts but wont take a professional football club forward.

Football, the sport, kicking a bag around makes nothing ad nauseam. The circus, the show, the sell on's and the promotion of does, the sheikhs, the Ashleys, the Yanks, and Thais (in all divisions) sell shirts, sponsorship, entertainment, rooms, you name it, anything off the back of it.

Sorry but as an outsider curiously peeping in, until I see a solid proposition/development attached to or aligned with the stadium/club to enable an income, the debts will spiral and so will the league position as nobody wants to throw money away, except maybe our councils accountants? 

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

So do you still stand by this statement, which I've twice asked you to substantiate, with no answer from yourself, or is it yet another post that when you get caught out, you claim it's just a joke ?
    Do you think it might be an idea that at the bottom of each of your posts, you let us know if it's a joke/lie, or if it's the truth because it's difficult to distinguish with most of the stuff you come out with.
    Again I repeat, surely if all you want to do is behave like a schoolboy by posting to get a reaction, maybe it's time to get a grown up to moderate this section 

The post had four or five winking faces. Is that not enough for you. And it was aimed at GPC as a joke. I’ve said that to you three times now.

My statement about the Chinese money, stating either substantiate it or shut up was as clear as it could be. If the Trust board in the past, and previous members have something that proves some impropriety, then say, or publish it. If not, shut up and let everyone get on with trying to move things on.

I’m not sure what you want Roger. I’ve openly admitted that I have absolutely no idea what the Trust was even about since Tony Clarke left it. I have made it clear that I saw it as nothing more than a think tank that did absolutely nothing to motivate the support. I openly admit that a lot of my disdain at the PAST Trust, was vented as jokes.

As a people I’m fine with you and every board member of the Trust. But... Whether you like it or not, I will not step away from MY perspective, that I do not feel it represented my best interests, as a member, when confronting the type of people that have done nothing to progress the club.

I feel I have pandered to your paranoia and clear annoyance at me enough now. So I will leave it there with you, having answered you three times now. Try to move on and relax a bit mate.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Fan hat on here.....

What has struck me today is the lack of response to the Trust statement.

As far as I can see that statement was reproduced on the Trust FB page, the Hotelenders FB page, The Shoe Army FB page, the NTFC Unofficial FB page, its been in the Chronicle, it was posted on Twitter and i'm guessing in other places too.

There are a handful of replies, comments, call it what you will across all of those outlets. Its as if nobody is bothered! Now I know, or at least I hope that is not true.....but maybe its just me.....I expected more of a debate. There seems to be no engagement at all......

I’m really pleased with recent movement from the Trust, but I’m not sure how the road map vision ties into the latest statement. I know it sounds like a broken record. But to progress, you have to be able to bury the hurt of the past, even if that means writing off some pretty challenging injustice.

I honestly believe that if the Trust can show that it is solely a vehicle for progress and the supporters part in that progress it will succeeded. But if is continues in this almost schizophrenic existence, of past trauma and doubt, coupled with moments of true vision and enlightenment, it will fall straight back down. There has to be clear demarcation lines.

Personally I am more optimistic about the near future for the Trust and the club than I have been for some time.

[Carton Lid]

My statement about the Chinese money, stating either substantiate it or shut up was as clear as it could be. If the Trust board in the past, and previous members have something that proves some impropriety, then say, or publish it. If not, shut up and let everyone get on with trying to move things on. But that was clear as day aimed at me, so I asked for proof of where I had posted anything as you suggested, you still haven't and that's because I didn't post anything, but why let the truth get in the way ?

I’m not sure what you want Roger. I’ve openly admitted that I have absolutely no idea what the Trust was even about since Tony Clarke left it. I have made it clear that I saw it as nothing more than a think tank that did absolutely nothing to motivate the support. I openly admit that a lot of my disdain at the PAST Trust, was vented as jokes.You still can't resist getting the digs in can you? "PAST"

As a people I’m fine with you and every board member of the Trust. But... Whether you like it or not, I will not step away from MY perspective, that I do not feel it represented my best interests, as a member, when confronting the type of people that have done nothing to progress the club. I am not a Trust board member and I have no problem whatsoever of you putting forward your thoughts on the way forward. But I don't see you doing this, all I see are digs about things that have happened years ago and posts to quote you    "I readily admit that I do it sometimes to get a bit of a reaction" This, really, isn't the sensible way forward

[west stand oap]

This is my first and last post on this thread as I will not be wasting my time responding to any replys. The thread is now 1418 pages long, I wonder how many wasted man hours that equates to, and as far as I can see has achieved nothing and I doubt another 1418 pages will. There will be no movement on the east stand until KT and the board are ready but when it is finally completed I expect most on here to be disappointed.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

This is my first and last post on this thread as I will not be wasting my time responding to any replys. The thread is now 1418 pages long, I wonder how many wasted man hours that equates to, and as far as I can see has achieved nothing and I doubt another 1418 pages will. There will be no movement on the east stand until KT and the board are ready but when it is finally completed I expect most on here to be disappointed.

In a nutshell.

[singcobb]

This is my first and last post on this thread as I will not be wasting my time responding to any replys. The thread is now 1418 pages long, I wonder how many wasted man hours that equates to, and as far as I can see has achieved nothing and I doubt another 1418 pages will. There will be no movement on the east stand until KT and the board are ready but when it is finally completed I expect most on here to be disappointed.

I have to admit that sometimes when I read some of the posts on here it makes me think that people almost want the club to fail just to prove their points.

[Manwork04]

I have to admit that sometimes when I read some of the posts on here it makes me think that people almost want the club to fail just to prove their points.

A lot have people must have had their points proved right this season then. 

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

A lot have people must have had their points proved right this season then. 

The club hasn’t failed. The team has suffered something that has happened repeatedly for years. With the exception of 6 - 7 clubs in the entire football league structure, relegation is a potential risk to them every year. There so much else that is good about NTFC than what happened this year. Singcobb is right. It is such a shame that negativity is such oxygen for some.

[Manwork04]

The club hasn’t failed. The team has suffered something that has happened repeatedly for years. With the exception of 6 - 7 clubs in the entire football league structure, relegation is a potential risk to them every year. There so much else that is good about NTFC than what happened this year. Singcobb is right. It is such a shame that negativity is such oxygen for some.

I don’t know what measure of success the club were using but the bar must be pretty low.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

I don’t know what measure of success the club were using but the bar must be pretty low.

Looking at the amount of significant sides that have succumbed to non league football over the years, you could easily argue its quite an achievement to maintain league status for as long as we have. Of course there are always negatives to find. I just prefer a better view on things. I still believe better is to come.. Perhaps I’m delusional 🤪😀

[guest3086]

If they can't be arsed to complete the east stand after 6 years they should get the *uck out of the club. It ain't difficult.

[singcobb]

If they can't be arsed to complete the east stand after 6 years they should get the *uck out of the club. It ain't difficult.

If I won the Lotto tomorrow and bought the Cobblers I wouldn't do jack shít with the east stand until we were selling out 50% of our home games. It just does not make business sense. If you build it they will come is great in a film, but in real life I think not.