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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1822885 times)
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« Reply #28400 on: May 27, 2021, 16:19:34 pm »

Totally get it, and I could add (tongue in cheek before anyone takes offence) to the flippant note - folks with low IQ's should not be allowed to have children, obese people should be denied health care etc etc - but the reality is the majority of fans have an affinity for their club but very limited knowledge of running any straightforward business let alone the madness of a football club - none the less some say in running the club seems to embody the culture of what a club really should be - the simplest involvement is simply saying yes or no to buying a ticket - the other extreme is the wholesale purchase of the club by a monied true fan - everything in between is fraught with politics, egos, a degree of ignorance and inevitably a shortage of money - me, I observe the comments, make an occasional suggestion and buy my ticket.
Perhaps an equally relevant point would be that most shareholders couldn’t run a major company, but it doesn’t stop them deciding who does.
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« Reply #28401 on: May 27, 2021, 17:07:47 pm »

A few people have made the point about The Trust getting a 'mandate' from the supporters. Its a very fair point, but there are two sides to this. I know that from the fair few years I was on the Trusts board.

Back in the weeks and months leading up to the financial crisis caused by DC and his cronies, there was a lot of information on line (easily accessible) that showed that troubles lay ahead. However, without exaggerating, even a week or so before it all came out, the vast majority of Cobblers fans still backed Cardoza 100% and refused to believe any of the stuff going on that anyone who had spent 10 minutes max of googling could have found out for themselves.

I recall vividly that when we did the 'we want answers campaign' it was 'supported' by no more than 25% of the regular fan base. 'We' were given abuse and verbal's by many fans as the leaflets were dished out, 'he saved the club', all that...

...now I'm not for one minute comparing DC with the current guardians of the football club.

BUT. Imagine now if the trust back then had gone to the members/wider fan base for a mandate to 'go in hard' with the owners of the football club, raise £, etc etc. Put simply, it wouldn't have been given a mandate. As such, DC would have gone under the radar for a few more weeks, then what? We shall never know for sure but what is certain is that the hole that we were in would have got far deeper...

The point I am making is that getting a detailed and specific mandate from the supporters at every stage of proceedings would be a potential disaster. Especially when sensitive information cannot be shared to firm up an 'agenda' as such. Its swings and roundabouts, it really is.

I wont get involved or comment on any of the current politics, I get on well with senior people at the football club as well as a number of the current trust board. I'm enjoying being neutral shall we say. BUT its unfair to keep bringing up this point (mandate). As far as I know it is not Trust policy to chase for fan ownership, more a case of working on ideas and business plans in case circumstances changed with the clubs ownership. I would have thought if the latter did occur, then a vote would be put forward to its members (Trust) at that point for a mandate.




There no comparison whatsoever. This is not a nose dive by the club under catastrophic circumstances. It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them.

Surely even a blind man can see that we have a football club that is in private ownership. The only recognised supporters group, has embarked on and shown a preference for an alternative ownership model. If that is not something that qualifies to have gone past the confines of the Trust board alone, I’m not sure what does qualify. You know as well as me, they simply don’t have the bottle to put it to the test. 

If I was committed to deconstructing everything NTFC stands for, rather than what’s fair, I would be absolutely fine in certain circles.

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« Reply #28402 on: May 27, 2021, 20:29:52 pm »

There no comparison whatsoever. This is not a nose dive by the club under catastrophic circumstances. It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them.

Surely even a blind man can see that we have a football club that is in private ownership. The only recognised supporters group, has embarked on and shown a preference for an alternative ownership model. If that is not something that qualifies to have gone past the confines of the Trust board alone, I’m not sure what does qualify. You know as well as me, they simply don’t have the bottle to put it to the test. 

If I was committed to deconstructing everything NTFC stands for, rather than what’s fair, I would be absolutely fine in certain circles.



Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?
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« Reply #28403 on: May 27, 2021, 21:33:23 pm »

Trust 1 - Tel 0.
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« Reply #28404 on: May 27, 2021, 21:56:09 pm »

this thread has to be the most nauseating experience since the last world I Spy championships in an empty room ...
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« Reply #28405 on: May 27, 2021, 22:26:42 pm »

this thread has to be the most nauseating experience since the last world I Spy championships in an empty room ...
May I suggest you refrain from reading it to safeguard your health
Melbourne Cobbler takes no responsibility for the accuracy of any medical advice either implied and/or given. Please consult your GP or a suitably qualified medical practitioner before making any decisions of a health and/or medical nature.
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« Reply #28406 on: May 27, 2021, 23:06:31 pm »

Trust 1 - Tel 0.
Game set and match I'd say.
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« Reply #28407 on: May 28, 2021, 08:00:47 am »

Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?

I don't want to wade into this... but that question is so full of caveats and qualifications that I'm surprised the result wasn't 100% 'strongly agree'. That wouldn't be anything like the same thing as the respondents being in-favour of an alternative ownership model, in its own right.
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« Reply #28408 on: May 28, 2021, 09:53:56 am »

Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?

I'm sorry, but that question is so badly worded and ambiguous I actually wonder if any gave any thought to the total irrelavance of any results that would be returned.
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« Reply #28409 on: May 28, 2021, 09:59:51 am »

Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?
As a matter of interest GPC do you know how many people in total responded or failed to respond when asked? I’m just wondering if there was much appetite for the subject?
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« Reply #28410 on: May 28, 2021, 10:07:01 am »

I don't want to wade into this... but that question is so full of caveats and qualifications that I'm surprised the result wasn't 100% 'strongly agree'. That wouldn't be anything like the same thing as the respondents being in-favour of an alternative ownership model, in its own right.

Hence this part in my earlier comment:


Don't ask a multitude of questions, don't couch the questions in if's, buts or other leading terms, just a straightforward "would you like the club to be fan owned - yes/no/don't care".

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« Reply #28411 on: May 28, 2021, 10:22:12 am »

Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?

What you are missing is the use of a leading question in order to get the result you want.
"Do you want The Trust to continue to explore potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis??"

Is a lot different to:

"Would you want NTFC to adopt the 50+1 ownership model?"

I would answer yes to the first but no to the second.
Another example of the continual flawed output from The Trust board.
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« Reply #28412 on: May 28, 2021, 13:25:28 pm »

What you are missing is the use of a leading question in order to get the result you want.
"Do you want The Trust to continue to explore potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis??"

Is a lot different to:

"Would you want NTFC to adopt the 50+1 ownership model?"

I would answer yes to the first but no to the second.
Another example of the continual flawed output from The Trust board.
That’s a bit harsh mate, if you don’t agree with it you’d just tick strongly disagree, fan ownership is self perpetuating anyway, if enough fans purchase shares then it’s all good.
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« Reply #28413 on: May 28, 2021, 13:36:12 pm »

That’s a bit harsh mate, if you don’t agree with it you’d just tick strongly disagree, fan ownership is self perpetuating anyway, if enough fans purchase shares then it’s all good.

Fans owning shares is great, until it comes time for the need of a large cash injection. Every one of those shareholders has to stump up their percentage, if they don't their shares are diluted and you lose the 50+1.
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« Reply #28414 on: May 28, 2021, 13:48:20 pm »

I think it has now got to the stage where "Trust Board Bashing" has become a bit tiresome for me, especially by a couple of administrators/moderators of this site.

I shall continue to post Trust updates in the relevant section on this board, and shall continue to post as a fan in other threads, but as for the tit-for-tat stuff that has gone on in here recently, nah, its not for me i'm afraid.

Anyone who wants any information or has any other comments then they can contact me by personal message on here, or to the Trust by already published methods.
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« Reply #28415 on: May 28, 2021, 14:19:18 pm »

The thing is Grange, that's part of the problem - whenever the Trust is challenged they go off in a huff. I hope you don't actually do that as it's been refreshing to have someone put the Trust's case in a civil, grown up and articulate fashion.

I think the problem a lot of us have is, rightly or wrongly, there's a perception that the Trust (or rather the Trust board) seem to have a personal preference for the club to move to a fan owned model.

That's not a view I share, nor is it a view that anyone I've spoken to on the matter shares; fan ownership is great to save a football club in an emergency but is really seen as a last resort rather than a preference.

The survey question you gave as evidence of support for fan ownership was, as has been pointed out, heavily biased in it's phrasing. It essentially says should the Trust look into how fan ownership works should we find ourselves up sh1t creek without a paddle. Pretty much everyone will say yes to that because why wouldn't you want a safety net below the tightrope of football club survival? That is very far from the same thing as "Do you want the club to be fan owned?"

I don't think it's "Trust bashing" to point that out, it's just constructive criticism.

If the Trust board really is only interested in having an emergency backup plan then great, carry on the good work, but if it does genuinely have ambitions towards running the club one day then it needs a stronger mandate than one given by a very lopsided question.
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« Reply #28416 on: May 28, 2021, 14:38:20 pm »


If the Trust board really is only interested in having an emergency backup plan then great, carry on the good work

This might be me, but having read back some of the posts over the last few days, the Trust board members on here seem to be alluding to this, without specifically stating so?

I feel pretty sorry for GPC. He's clearly trying to bridge a gap here, but is being met with quite a bit of a backlash for doing so? IMO, of course.
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« Reply #28417 on: May 28, 2021, 15:21:00 pm »

Nigel....do I have to pull you up again? You know those links I put up the other day....?

The questions that went out to Trust members first.....

Question 4: The Supporters Trust should continue its exploration of a potential future ownership model for Northampton Town FC (including the well-established 50+1 structure in Germany) in the event of the club once again finding itself in crisis?

Response:  Strongly Agree – 40 per cent

Agree – 35

Neither Agree or Disagree – 11

Disagree – 7

Strongly Disagree – 7

How can you keep trotting out the accusation that, in your words, "It is a conscious effort by an appointed body to take them and their membership in a certain direction with no attempt whatsoever to gauge the thoughts of those that appointed them."

Am I missing something here?

That had to be the wooliest survey I have ever seen. It talks about the exploration as opposed to the actual pursuance.

Are you Matt Hancock in disguise.

BTW. I never received those questions.

In the spirit of openness... It might have been published elsewhere.. How many responses did you receive?
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« Reply #28418 on: May 28, 2021, 15:31:50 pm »

I think it has now got to the stage where "Trust Board Bashing" has become a bit tiresome for me, especially by a couple of administrators/moderators of this site.



There are plenty on here with no more connection to this site that you, who feel the same. It’s funny how you and Roger want to separate yourself from the Trust when commenting personally, yet don’t afford others that respect. I’m sure like when I used to be on the Trust board, this site and others get criticism... Or bashed as you guys like to use these days 😁😁

Not one single person has “bashed” the Trust. They have used their democratic right to disagree with you and a few others on what appears to be one single point. I accept your perspective, but disagree with it. It does not reflect on my thoughts about you in any other way.

Perhaps as a supporter of NTFC, I should take similar exception to the constant bashing that you and few others inflict on the club.

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« Reply #28419 on: May 28, 2021, 15:45:27 pm »

I think it has now got to the stage where "Trust Board Bashing" has become a bit tiresome for me, especially by a couple of administrators/moderators of this site.

I shall continue to post Trust updates in the relevant section on this board, and shall continue to post as a fan in other threads, but as for the tit-for-tat stuff that has gone on in here recently, nah, its not for me i'm afraid.

Anyone who wants any information or has any other comments then they can contact me by personal message on here, or to the Trust by already published methods.

That's a shame.....but pretty much the route every trust rep goes down eventually.  I'm not suprised but a little suprised you did it so quickly.  I've lost count of how many times Barton used to spit his dummy out, leave this board or say similar to what you have just done.

The easy escape route has always been to call any valid criticism "Trust Board Bashing" and dismiss it.  It's easy isn't it.  Cause that then just makes it irrelevant to you.  Would you be comfortable if we dismissed all Trust statements about the club as just "Club Bashing"?  Some people do that currently in fact and see the trust this way.  Is that fair?

I said weeks ago that the survey was full of heavily weighted questions and would be used to publically support the trusts mandate when discussing any of these issues in the future.  In some respects it's smart I guess although looks very much like the PR spin everyone seems to love criticising the club when they do it....player pathway anyone?  I've already seen the answers mentioned in several tweets/news updates to justify the trusts stance.  The questions were written in such a way that it was obvious what the answers were going to be.  I answered that survey at the time genuinely pleased that questions were finally being asked of the supporters where I could have my say.  I was so disapointed when I clicked on the link and firstly saw so few questions and secondly how weighted they generally were towards an obvious response/outcome.

If that's your idea of consulting your membership then you are a mile away from being the organisation you claim you are or want to be.  I had some faint hope of change when I read your posts a couple of weeks ago.
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