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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1342474 times)
Manwork04
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« Reply #29020 on: June 28, 2021, 13:32:58 pm »

I just went over to the Trust website to see if they have issued any sort of apology or rebuttal to the letter from the club staff over the weekend. They haven't, but while I was on there I couldn't resist having a peek at their forum.

I last looked not long after it launched and it was tumbleweed city. I thought it might have got going a bit since then,  but it hasn't.  Since February last year, there have been 67 posts. As far as I could see, every single one of those was from Roger, Andy R or a user called "Trust" which would seem to be the admin account.

No one has posted a thing in nearly 4 months.

Looking at the Trust's Facebook page, their big statement last Tuesday triggered a whopping 3 comments, all of which were posted in the last 24 hours and were taking issue with the Trust over the letter from the club staff.

This shows a pretty shocking level of engagement with the supporters (or anyone, actually) 

I'm sorry, but they really do need to up their game if they want to be taken seriously.


Totally agree, they are not doing themselves any favours.
I donít doubt itís for the right reasons but at the moment they are making a right Horlicks of it and itís playing right into KTs hands.
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« Reply #29021 on: June 28, 2021, 13:42:13 pm »

Manwork. A couple of genuine questions for you. I know you've answered in-part elsewhere, but I'd find it helpful to have it all in one place and I don't think I'm alone in that.

(1) Do you genuinely believe that something illegal has been or is going on at the football club and/or amongst the current ownership, since they acquired the club?
(2) If so, and you turn out to be right, is what you believe has been going on easily evidenced?
(3) If so, why do you think that evidence hasn't been made public and/or handed to the relevant law enforcement authorities?

I know that you're not the only one who posts to this effect, but you are the most vocal which is why I'm asking you.

I know Manwork has been vocal about this, but others have also as mentioned, so they should feel free to answer the above as well.
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« Reply #29022 on: June 28, 2021, 14:27:57 pm »

Been fairly neutral when it's come to the Trust issue.
However, it has been becoming clearer for many months if not years, certain individuals have their own agenda, and wish that outcome at the expense of the club, certainly KT/DB and anything they do (or don't) for the club.

Time for the Trust to be cleansed, folded...or for some to go the same way as Hancock...Matt not Tony that is!  Wink
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« Reply #29023 on: June 28, 2021, 14:50:11 pm »

I know Manwork has been vocal about this, but others have also as mentioned, so they should feel free to answer the above as well.

Yep. There are also ways of answering without getting yourself into hot water... not that anyone should be worried if what they're saying/implying is true.
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« Reply #29024 on: June 28, 2021, 15:17:59 pm »

Can anyone remember the level of debt owed by the club when our current owners took over? Seem to remember it being a few hundred thousand... I believe it's now in the region of £6.7m?
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« Reply #29025 on: June 28, 2021, 15:40:43 pm »

Can anyone remember the level of debt owed by the club when our current owners took over? Seem to remember it being a few hundred thousand... I believe it's now in the region of £6.7m?

I can't, but I'm really not sure how much it matters, in the short- to medium-term at least.

The club has nowhere near the kind of cash needed to service those debts. If they're called in the end-game would be winding-up proceedings, at which point KT/DB wouldn't see a penny anyway.

They can't just 'strip the assets' as I've seen suggested in at least one post on here. That is unless they're not arsed about their other directorships and/or any they might hope to hold in the future. Even then they'd struggle to come out sitting pretty.

The loans are, to all intents and purposes, a gift. That is true until the club generates enough cash to cover them, at which point why shouldn't the owners get their money back?
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« Reply #29026 on: June 28, 2021, 16:05:43 pm »

Cant we have a dedicated trust thread somewhere, its hi-jacking the redev thread FFS  Huh?

The trust taking over here has spread the redev out, and talk of redev is breaking out all over the fucking place Mods!! Do some tidying up.

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« Reply #29027 on: June 28, 2021, 16:17:59 pm »

Can anyone remember the level of debt owed by the club when our current owners took over? Seem to remember it being a few hundred thousand... I believe it's now in the region of £6.7m?
.


About £5million was owed to the Cardozas, which was written-off. So rest of the debt would have been a few hundred k. The club hasn't really changed in terms of fan base, so it's no surprise the losses that were incurred under the Cardozas contunue to be incurred under KT/DB.
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« Reply #29028 on: June 28, 2021, 16:28:47 pm »

Would you allow your employees to post that on a club website?
It may not be contrived in the eyes of the authorís but itís very existence has been manipulated.
This timing of it is indisputable evidence of such.

I agree the mechanism is curious but also consider the staff have somewhat limited means to communicate effectively & whilst I'm sure KT knew and approved of the posting, which certainly suited his agenda but I also know first hand how some of the honest hardworking staff were sick of the innuendos and insults being posted with no right of reply.

To be honest I think the issues have so polarised the fan base that it can only cause damage - unfortunately we seem now to live in a society (Brexit being a perfect example) where a view is 100% right or 100% wrong - in truth we all know that is rarely the case and I think for the sake of our club we should all occasionally step in the other guys shoes. 
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« Reply #29029 on: June 28, 2021, 16:32:45 pm »

I agree the mechanism is curious but also consider the staff have somewhat limited means to communicate effectively & whilst I'm sure KT knew and approved of the posting, which certainly suited his agenda but I also know first hand how some of the honest hardworking staff were sick of the innuendos and insults being posted with no right of reply.

To be honest I think the issues have so polarised the fan base that it can only cause damage - unfortunately we seem now to live in a society (Brexit being a perfect example) where a view is 100% right or 100% wrong - in truth we all know that is rarely the case and I think for the sake of our club we should all occasionally step in the other guys shoes. 

Great post CW, I think you are right and we all need to step back a bit and think about the pro's and cons of both sides.
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« Reply #29030 on: June 28, 2021, 16:43:49 pm »

Been fairly neutral when it's come to the Trust issue.
However, it has been becoming clearer for many months if not years, certain individuals have their own agenda, and wish that outcome at the expense of the club, certainly KT/DB and anything they do (or don't) for the club.

Time for the Trust to be cleansed, folded...or for some to go the same way as Hancock...Matt not Tony that is!  Wink

Unfortunately even with the best intention virtually all amateur organisations go the way of power struggles, politics and individual agendas - I read some of the trust communications and they seem to think corporate wordy type missives on board structure, resolutions etc legitimise the organisation - unfortunately this can mask the true objective of the organisation. Given the Trust board are all giving their time for nothing it adds a level of protection from criticism & even accountability. Going forward if we were ever to even consider an element of fan ownership you have to have a paid CEO (even if its only a modest salary) - but one that makes the post holder truly accountable.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #29031 on: June 28, 2021, 17:36:54 pm »

I agree the mechanism is curious but also consider the staff have somewhat limited means to communicate effectively & whilst I'm sure KT knew and approved of the posting, which certainly suited his agenda but I also know first hand how some of the honest hardworking staff were sick of the innuendos and insults being posted with no right of reply.

To be honest I think the issues have so polarised the fan base that it can only cause damage - unfortunately we seem now to live in a society (Brexit being a perfect example) where a view is 100% right or 100% wrong - in truth we all know that is rarely the case and I think for the sake of our club we should all occasionally step in the other guys shoes. 
I completely agree, which makes the whole thing even more unpalatable as the the letter has the caveat that KT and DB had no knowledge, which is clearly not true.
The club is trying to split the fan base and then shame anyone who holds KTs feet to the fire.
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« Reply #29032 on: June 28, 2021, 18:37:33 pm »

I just went over to the Trust website to see if they have issued any sort of apology or rebuttal to the letter from the club staff over the weekend. They haven't, but while I was on there I couldn't resist having a peek at their forum.

I last looked not long after it launched and it was tumbleweed city. I thought it might have got going a bit since then,  but it hasn't.  Since February last year, there have been 67 posts. As far as I could see, every single one of those was from Roger, Andy R or a user called "Trust" which would seem to be the admin account.

No one has posted a thing in nearly 4 months.

Looking at the Trust's Facebook page, their big statement last Tuesday triggered a whopping 3 comments, all of which were posted in the last 24 hours and were taking issue with the Trust over the letter from the club staff.

This shows a pretty shocking level of engagement with the supporters (or anyone, actually) 

I'm sorry, but they really do need to up their game if they want to be taken seriously.



Surely engagement is a two way street? It seems plenty have something to say about things now, mainly off the back of a couple of Club statements.

There is a Trust website as you say, there is a messageboard as you say, there is a Facebook page as you say.... the facilities/channels of communication are available.

Also worth pointing out that it seems a large number of Trust members are saying "i've not heard anything from the Trust for years".......the last two letters sent out by the Trust included a GDPR form, and it is a requirement for members to give their consent to receive publications, newsletters, communications etc. There are restrictions on sending mail, either by post or electronically without the consent afforded by the GDPR form.

I'm not going to pretend that the Trust have done everything they could have done to communicate, however it can't be portrayed that they've done nothing either.

Any Trust member can ask for an invite (in current Zoom times) to any Trust board meeting. Any Truat member can attend the AGM (joining instructions are sent out when notification of the meeting is made) and anyone can find the website as you have done and send an email about anything.

I've been a board member for around four months now, and our monthly meetings always have the "correspondence" standing order.....I think there have been two communications from Trust members in the four months.
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« Reply #29033 on: June 28, 2021, 18:56:24 pm »

GPC, my understanding is that if you have an ongoing contractual relationship with another party their would be no restriction on communication. Therefore as paid members of the Trust it would be unnecessary for the board to obtain permission to send emails or similar communications to its membership, at least thatís my interpretation.
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« Reply #29034 on: June 28, 2021, 19:04:30 pm »

GPC, my understanding is that if you have an ongoing contractual relationship with another party their would be no restriction on communication. Therefore as paid members of the Trust it would be unnecessary for the board to obtain permission to send emails or similar communications to its membership, at least thatís my interpretation.

You may know better than me.....you say "paid members".....the majority of those paid life membership fees many years ago, before the advent of electronic mail. Permission of some sort has to be sought.....and as I said we certainly have had GDPR forms sent to us in the last couple of years (I say us because when I received the AGM notification I was not on the board at that time)
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« Reply #29035 on: June 28, 2021, 19:56:05 pm »

I completely agree, which makes the whole thing even more unpalatable as the the letter has the caveat that KT and DB had no knowledge, which is clearly not true.
The club is trying to split the fan base and then shame anyone who holds KTs feet to the fire.


To be fair to the club staff they only stated that the letter was written and sent to the Trust Board, without KT and DB's knowledge. Nowhere do they say it was posted on the club website without the owners knowing. Surely if the letter was sent to the Trust first and then the staff asked to post on the website that's reasonable, is it not?
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #29036 on: June 28, 2021, 20:02:44 pm »

To be fair to the club staff they only stated that the letter was written and sent to the Trust Board, without KT and DB's knowledge. Nowhere do they say it was posted on the club website without the owners knowing. Surely if the letter was sent to the Trust first and then the staff asked to post on the website that's reasonable, is it not?

On that matter the letter was sent by email to a small number of the Trust Board members some 30-40 minutes before it was posted on the Club websiteÖ..
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« Reply #29037 on: June 28, 2021, 20:08:11 pm »

Surely engagement is a two way street? It seems plenty have something to say about things now, mainly off the back of a couple of Club statements.

There is a Trust website as you say, there is a messageboard as you say, there is a Facebook page as you say.... the facilities/channels of communication are available.

Also worth pointing out that it seems a large number of Trust members are saying "i've not heard anything from the Trust for years".......the last two letters sent out by the Trust included a GDPR form, and it is a requirement for members to give their consent to receive publications, newsletters, communications etc. There are restrictions on sending mail, either by post or electronically without the consent afforded by the GDPR form.

I'm not going to pretend that the Trust have done everything they could have done to communicate, however it can't be portrayed that they've done nothing either.

Any Trust member can ask for an invite (in current Zoom times) to any Trust board meeting. Any Truat member can attend the AGM (joining instructions are sent out when notification of the meeting is made) and anyone can find the website as you have done and send an email about anything.

I've been a board member for around four months now, and our monthly meetings always have the "correspondence" standing order.....I think there have been two communications from Trust members in the four months.

TBF the Trust hardly comes across as a welcoming environment.
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« Reply #29038 on: June 28, 2021, 20:11:50 pm »

To be fair to the club staff they only stated that the letter was written and sent to the Trust Board, without KT and DB's knowledge. Nowhere do they say it was posted on the club website without the owners knowing. Surely if the letter was sent to the Trust first and then the staff asked to post on the website that's reasonable, is it not?
I think the 30 min gap blows that theory out of the water.
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« Reply #29039 on: June 28, 2021, 20:26:05 pm »

TBF the Trust hardly comes across as a welcoming environment.

Are we talking now, the last 6 months, since a good number of people joined in 2015 or since itís conception?

All I was doing was pointing out that the channels of communication are open for people to useÖ.I forgot to add the Twitter handle and even the Chairmanís mobile phone number are also on the website.
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