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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1185537 times)
JollyCobbler
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« Reply #29060 on: June 28, 2021, 23:04:51 pm »

GPC, my understanding is that if you have an ongoing contractual relationship with another party their would be no restriction on communication. Therefore as paid members of the Trust it would be unnecessary for the board to obtain permission to send emails or similar communications to its membership, at least that’s my interpretation.

Incorrect. As the sender you must be able to supply written evidence of consent relevant to the implementation of GDPR.
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« Reply #29061 on: June 28, 2021, 23:08:30 pm »

On that matter the letter was sent by email to a small number of the Trust Board members some 30-40 minutes before it was posted on the Club website…..

Interesting. And was it sent via the club's email account? Because if a member of my staff started firing off company headed emails without my consent I'd be royally pissed.
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« Reply #29062 on: June 28, 2021, 23:16:23 pm »

What the **** are you dribbling on about now? Manny made a joke about how I could help the "old men" so I made a joke playing up to the stereotype of old folk's homes. Unless I misread Grange's comment, I'm pretty sure it was intended as tongue in cheek, so why do you feel the need to go wading in with your trusty shìt stirring stick?

Your reply was distasteful and no bleating will excuse it. How about an apology to the recipient?
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« Reply #29063 on: June 28, 2021, 23:46:50 pm »

Incorrect. As the sender you must be able to supply written evidence of consent relevant to the implementation of GDPR.
Happened to be having an off the record chat to one of a legal bods and they reckon it would be classed as “soft opt in” and would be covered if supplying an “opt out” or unsubscribe option on each communication. I’m not paying for the official interpretation though, sorry.
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« Reply #29064 on: June 29, 2021, 02:39:44 am »

Happened to be having an off the record chat to one of a legal bods and they reckon it would be classed as “soft opt in” and would be covered if supplying an “opt out” or unsubscribe option on each communication. I’m not paying for the official interpretation though, sorry.

If you say so, although that's not what we were advised via the horse's mouth. Either way, it shouldn't be an issue for a group such as the Trust. All they needed to do was send a consent/opt-out included in with whatever else the initial (pre-GDPR) newsletter covered - and then keep an opt-out attached to all subsequent communications.

This whole thing is unsavoury. The Trust certainly haven't covered themselves in glory, but then the NTFC staff response comes across as just as crass. All parties need to start rowing in the same direction, and realize that just because someone has a differing viewpoint, it doesn't make them the enemy. We all want what's best for the club, and that works best if all parties remain cordial - Let's cut out the 'personal' slurs... save those for Matt Hancock. Grin
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« Reply #29065 on: June 29, 2021, 04:58:10 am »

If you say so, although that's not what we were advised via the horse's mouth. Either way, it shouldn't be an issue for a group such as the Trust. All they needed to do was send a consent/opt-out included in with whatever else the initial (pre-GDPR) newsletter covered - and then keep an opt-out attached to all subsequent communications.

This whole thing is unsavoury. The Trust certainly haven't covered themselves in glory, but then the NTFC staff response comes across as just as crass. All parties need to start rowing in the same direction, and realize that just because someone has a differing viewpoint, it doesn't make them the enemy. We all want what's best for the club, and that works best if all parties remain cordial - Let's cut out the 'personal' slurs... save those for Matt Hancock. Grin
I perhaps should point out that it wouldn’t be the first time my lot have told me something only to come back later having looked it up and change their opinion. I agree with your post by the way
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« Reply #29066 on: June 29, 2021, 07:38:28 am »

Happened to be having an off the record chat to one of a legal bods and they reckon it would be classed as “soft opt in” and would be covered if supplying an “opt out” or unsubscribe option on each communication. I’m not paying for the official interpretation though, sorry.

Having attended some GDPR implementation workshops, one of the things GDPR  was introduced to stop was implicit opt ins, which is why websites have had to stop the trick they used to do of having various opt in/out tick boxes that used slightly different language to convey meaning. So for example you might see 3 tick boxes that would say "I agree for my information to be used for..." and one tucked away amongst them that says "I do not agree for my information to be used for..." meaning to fully opt out the consumer/client would have to thoroughly read the questions and tick some but not others. People being people, they'd read the first couple and then tick all the boxes, thereby giving the organisation their consent without realising it. That's not allowed now, every opt in has to be a positive choice.

That said, organisations are allowed to contact customers without specific consent if the customer might reasonably expect them to do so in relation to the service they are being provided with. In the case of my company, that means we are allowed to email a customer with order updates without an active consent (because why else would they give it to us) but we aren't allowed to market further things to them in the future. (EDIT: I should probably add we do still have to get a generic piece of consent about us acting as a data controller, but if the customer won't agree to that we won't accept their order in the first place)

We also have an ongoing debate with our legal advisors (a large, reputable firm who specialise in GDPR) about what to do about our marketing database. It stretches back years and predates GDPR consent but is very large and we're reluctant to write it off as a resource. We aren't allowed to email them to ask them to opt in, but it's possible we can send them a letter and ask them to do so. It's against the spirit of GDPR but possibly not against the letter of the law, but despite months of discussion even they can't give us a definitive answer, so it's a really murky area.

In terms of the Trust, if you're a member of an organisation, particularly  one you had paid to join, would you reasonably expect them to contact you about your permission for them to keep contacting you?  My personal opinion is yes, you probably would, but I wouldn't want to make a call on that one way or the other without legal advice!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 07:42:23 am by BackOfTheNet » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #29067 on: June 29, 2021, 08:40:29 am »

I would imagine there is a world of difference between a company marketing for profit and a not for profit organisation contacting its membership for instruction?
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« Reply #29068 on: June 29, 2021, 08:50:28 am »

Ain't it amusing the way the majority of the posters on here present themselves as business gurus who really should have been invited on to the top table on dragons den and constantly big themselves up. With their paid army of solicitors and accountants who advise them on everything from legal precedent to Sam Hoskin's inside leg. At the same time we have folk who hate the Trust, folk who hate the Chairman, folk who hate each other, folk who hate the club staff, club staff who hate the Trust, a Chairman who hates the Trust Board, everbrite and a bunch of Chelsea fans. If this was a country it would be Syria. If it was a planet it would be WASP-189b.
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« Reply #29069 on: June 29, 2021, 08:55:21 am »

Your reply was distasteful and no bleating will excuse it. How about an apology to the recipient?

Lord save me from judgemental moralisers - oops your words earlier not mine.

Take a look in the mirror occasionally and you might see what a silly hypocritical man you are.
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« Reply #29070 on: June 29, 2021, 09:07:58 am »

Ain't it amusing the way the majority of the posters on here present themselves as business gurus who really should have been invited on to the top table on dragons den and constantly big themselves up. With their paid army of solicitors and accountants who advise them on everything from legal precedent to Sam Hoskin's inside leg. At the same time we have folk who hate the Trust, folk who hate the Chairman, folk who hate each other, folk who hate the club staff, club staff who hate the Trust, a Chairman who hates the Trust Board, everbrite and a bunch of Chelsea fans. If this was a country it would be Syria. If it was a planet it would be WASP-189b.

….& occasionally there is a positive comment 😄
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« Reply #29071 on: June 29, 2021, 09:11:49 am »

In fairness to the trust (or perhaps not if they haven’t communicated since) but I certainly got a letter to confirm data protection legislation with a positive opt - to which I replied so if all members they could trace got this communication I’m not sure what the issue is?
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« Reply #29072 on: June 29, 2021, 09:14:13 am »

I would imagine there is a world of difference between a company marketing for profit and a not for profit organisation contacting its membership for instruction?

Not much difference really….GDPR is pretty rigid!

As already said a number of times, the Trust has sent out GDPR forms for the last two years at least….so someone believes that the Trust needs consent to be able to contact its members.

We’re arguing about nothing here….members who haven’t given consent will not receive communications….it’s really that simple!
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« Reply #29073 on: June 29, 2021, 09:28:13 am »

Not much difference really….GDPR is pretty rigid!

As already said a number of times, the Trust has sent out GDPR forms for the last two years at least….so someone believes that the Trust needs consent to be able to contact its members.

We’re arguing about nothing here….members who haven’t given consent will not receive communications….it’s really that simple!

Absolutely- glad it’s not just me
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« Reply #29074 on: June 29, 2021, 09:39:30 am »

Not much difference really….GDPR is pretty rigid!

As already said a number of times, the Trust has sent out GDPR forms for the last two years at least….so someone believes that the Trust needs consent to be able to contact its members.

We’re arguing about nothing here….members who haven’t given consent will not receive communications….it’s really that simple!
I would add that I received and returned the GDPR request form sent to me a while back but still dont obviously receive communications from the Trust board. That might not be down to the Trust though, could have been post failing to get back or some other spurious reason?
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« Reply #29075 on: June 29, 2021, 09:52:37 am »

Ain't it amusing the way the majority of the posters on here present themselves as business gurus who really should have been invited on to the top table on dragons den and constantly big themselves up. With their paid army of solicitors and accountants who advise them on everything from legal precedent to Sam Hoskin's inside leg. At the same time we have folk who hate the Trust, folk who hate the Chairman, folk who hate each other, folk who hate the club staff, club staff who hate the Trust, a Chairman who hates the Trust Board, everbrite and a bunch of Chelsea fans. If this was a country it would be Syria. If it was a planet it would be WASP-189b.

Exactly my take and an amusing summary. I'm surprised we're not a high performing fan owned Prem set up with the levels of expertise at our disposal.
Peter Jones "I'm out"  Grin
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #29076 on: June 29, 2021, 11:29:34 am »

Having attended some GDPR implementation workshops, one of the things GDPR  was introduced to stop was implicit opt ins, which is why websites have had to stop the trick they used to do of having various opt in/out tick boxes that used slightly different language to convey meaning. So for example you might see 3 tick boxes that would say "I agree for my information to be used for..." and one tucked away amongst them that says "I do not agree for my information to be used for..." meaning to fully opt out the consumer/client would have to thoroughly read the questions and tick some but not others. People being people, they'd read the first couple and then tick all the boxes, thereby giving the organisation their consent without realising it. That's not allowed now, every opt in has to be a positive choice.

That said, organisations are allowed to contact customers without specific consent if the customer might reasonably expect them to do so in relation to the service they are being provided with. In the case of my company, that means we are allowed to email a customer with order updates without an active consent (because why else would they give it to us) but we aren't allowed to market further things to them in the future. (EDIT: I should probably add we do still have to get a generic piece of consent about us acting as a data controller, but if the customer won't agree to that we won't accept their order in the first place)

We also have an ongoing debate with our legal advisors (a large, reputable firm who specialise in GDPR) about what to do about our marketing database. It stretches back years and predates GDPR consent but is very large and we're reluctant to write it off as a resource. We aren't allowed to email them to ask them to opt in, but it's possible we can send them a letter and ask them to do so. It's against the spirit of GDPR but possibly not against the letter of the law, but despite months of discussion even they can't give us a definitive answer, so it's a really murky area.

In terms of the Trust, if you're a member of an organisation, particularly  one you had paid to join, would you reasonably expect them to contact you about your permission for them to keep contacting you?  My personal opinion is yes, you probably would, but I wouldn't want to make a call on that one way or the other without legal advice!

Good post. And better worded than I managed. With regards the section I highlighted, that is certainly a part that wasn't very well thought out. But with regards to those existing recipients, I partially agree with Melbourne's legal mate. There has to be validity to an initial one-off soft opt-in email, otherwise a lot of companies would be left hanging. Of course, it's likely the Trust sent those emails out and they were never opened/responded to. They then have the problem of many listed members (most of whom have shown little interest in years), but with it being highly questionable as to whether those people wish to continue receiving. Does anyone know what the Trust's opening rate is for their mail?
This is one of the problems faced by business/groups run primarily by volunteers, and where smooth operating slips because of other life commitments. It is not a situation that is unique to the Trust.
I do wonder if some of those bashing the Trust about a lack of communication perhaps received emails in the past that they failed to respond to, and hence have been scrubbed from the database? It's just a thought.

ETA: Having just read the above posts it seems the Trust are on top of GDPR. I reiterate, I wonder how many of those moaning about lack of communication have previously failed to 'give consent'. Otherwise, perhaps they need to check their spam box. Grin
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« Reply #29077 on: June 29, 2021, 12:31:54 pm »


Ain't it amusing the way the majority of the posters on here present themselves as business gurus who really should have been invited on to the top table on dragons den and constantly big themselves up. With their paid army of solicitors and accountants who advise them on everything from legal precedent to Sam Hoskin's inside leg.
 At the same time we have folk who hate the Trust, folk who hate the Chairman, folk who hate each other, folk who hate the club staff, club staff who hate the Trust, a Chairman who hates the Trust Board, everbrite and a bunch of Chelsea fans. If this was a country it would be Syria. If it was a planet it would be WASP-189b.

Couldn't agree more and a lot of it is just boring load of old drivel.
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« Reply #29078 on: June 29, 2021, 14:04:31 pm »

 I've never laid claim to be a business magnate. I'm but a humble employee, so when I say "my company" I simply mean the company I currently work for.

I do however have the best part of a quarter of a century under my belt working in the IT sector, during which I've built or implemented dozens if not hundreds of systems across the gamut of retail, finance, property, marketing, BI and eCommerce for some really quite big international companies. In order to understand how to deliver those you need to speak to a lot of people, so yes, I've learned a lot by talking to solicitors, consultants, investors and specialists in a raft of different areas. As a result I'm the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none - I've dipped my toe into an awful lot of things, so I know enough to hold a conversation at a reasonable level without being an expert in any of it!  Tongue
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« Reply #29079 on: June 29, 2021, 16:32:42 pm »

I've noticed The New Hotel End project has been put on hold due to the spat between the Trust and the club.
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