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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1467123 times)
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« Reply #29120 on: September 09, 2021, 13:21:19 pm »

All this hypothetical backbiting is pointless and a bit like pÓssing in the sea, the trust is made up of fans and the fact of the matter is they are trying to get a better deal for the club.
Your like or quite obvious dislike of the trust is insignificant and completely irrelevant.
I am the Trust Manny, because Iím a member. The board members come and go but their job should be to represent the interests of the membership. They have never asked me to vote on anything ever, and that doesnít sit comfortably with me. Thatís my opinion and as a lifetime member Iím entitled. Not having a go mate
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« Reply #29121 on: September 09, 2021, 13:47:02 pm »

Thanks Deepcut for your explanation.

The "little information" is a big part of the issues, hence the 25 questions.  KT has chosen to keep the majority of the fans well and truly in the dark

There was a 35+ slides of ideas, facts, concerns and much more with the meeting, so I think they got enough of the story from the Trust's point of view, on what their objections are.

There is just no need for you to try and belittle the efforts.

I assume that you accuse the owners of the same... no substance and creditability, especially bearing in mind they are in control and have all the information on what they are planning



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« Reply #29122 on: September 09, 2021, 13:49:22 pm »

Am I, was I?
Show me where I have been supportive of owners over fans...I am also 'a fan'.

Although I have had conversations with individual 'The Trust' board members, I have no ties or had any interactions whatsoever with any owners past or present.
My opinions and observations are constructive criticism based on facts as presented, in order for The Trust to up their game, they are not a personal slight to any organisation or any one, including yourself.

I can show you plenty of examples of your sniping posts at the fans (ie The Trust and others) whilst cannot find any aimed at the owners.
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« Reply #29123 on: September 09, 2021, 13:54:52 pm »

I am the Trust Manny, because Iím a member. The board members come and go but their job should be to represent the interests of the membership. They have never asked me to vote on anything ever, and that doesnít sit comfortably with me. Thatís my opinion and as a lifetime member Iím entitled. Not having a go mate

In that case get in touch with the Trust and express your views. Things don't change just because you want them to. Alternatively contact WNC or whoever personally and present your own opinion. Constantly undermining the only body that is making an effort in all of this shambles to highlight concerns by spouting negatives on a two-bit forum is pointless.
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« Reply #29124 on: September 09, 2021, 14:10:57 pm »

I've said this many times, while I'm fundamentally opposed to the Trust's (or rather the Trust board's) stance regarding the redevelopment, I've always thought they are acting with the best intentions. That said, I think that their incompetence, naivety and generalised idealism is going to end up doing more harm than good to the football club, but that's another matter; I've always thought they meant well.

I've just read a number of comments on the Trust's Facebook post about the latest meeting and I think that "best intentions" part might be going down the pan. They seem to be developing a bunker mentality and just lashing out at anyone who challenges them (and I'm getting the feeling that most people DON'T now support their current stance). One guy on there would appear to be an accountant and is challenging them on their accounts. I've no idea who is right and who isn't, but this was the response from one of the Trust board members:

Quote
If, hypothetically, a qualified accountant publishes deliberately incorrect information in the public domain (such as £14K on office expenses when it was in fact £6,900), this is a potential breach of the IESBA Code of Ethics in respect of (a) professional behaviour and (b) integrity, both of which are fundamental principles as clearly explained in the ICAEW rule book.

That to me isn't part of a balanced debate, it's a veiled threat and a pretty unpleasant one at that.

This is the organisation that is meant to represent the fans.

If a fan challenges them, they are entitled to do so and should certainly not expect to receive this sort of a response if they do. I can't help but think that if the Trust feel under fire, instead of circling the wagons they would be better advised to have a long hard look at why so many of the people they claim to represent feel the need to "attack" them in the first place.
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« Reply #29125 on: September 09, 2021, 14:16:54 pm »

In that case get in touch with the Trust and express your views. Things don't change just because you want them to. Alternatively contact WNC or whoever personally and present your own opinion. Constantly undermining the only body that is making an effort in all of this shambles to highlight concerns by spouting negatives on a two-bit forum is pointless.
To be fair the observation is correct, despite being a lifetime member my opinion is insignificant and completely irrelevant. FYI I have emailed the Trust directly with my views upon receipt of their email. If the board are confident of their position then they should welcome any challenge to their position and the opportunity to respond, thatís how you build confidence and reassurance. Members that have concerns and fears have a right to voice them and have them addressed, thatís what inclusivity is all about. Somebody please tell me why this is inappropriate?
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« Reply #29126 on: September 09, 2021, 15:23:43 pm »

To be fair the observation is correct, despite being a lifetime member my opinion is insignificant and completely irrelevant. FYI I have emailed the Trust directly with my views upon receipt of their email. If the board are confident of their position then they should welcome any challenge to their position and the opportunity to respond, thatís how you build confidence and reassurance. Members that have concerns and fears have a right to voice them and have them addressed, thatís what inclusivity is all about. Somebody please tell me why this is inappropriate?
Who said it was inappropriate?
You and your small band of cohorts seem to want to belittle the trust at every opportunity, perhaps you should get together and buy a chip shop, youíll never run out of raw materials.
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« Reply #29127 on: September 09, 2021, 15:34:43 pm »

Can someone quickly recap how the Trust went from having a seat on the club board to losing it....and whether this is an underlying issue/cause of bad feeling since it happened.
On a previous comment...I didn't realise the Trust board weren't elected/re-elected by the wider membership.
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« Reply #29128 on: September 09, 2021, 15:44:42 pm »

I can show you plenty of examples of your sniping posts at the fans (ie The Trust and others) whilst cannot find any aimed at the owners.

It's not 'sniping', it's Constructive Criticism.
I have had disagreements with individual fans, but that is what this message board is for, we all have differing opinions.  I have never let that spill over into anything of a personal nature nor never accused anyone of supporting one side or the other.

However, I have never once demeaned or criticised the intent of The Trust, just their methods of attempting to achieve that intent which, in my opinion, has once again fallen short of the standard that should be expected of our representative body.
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« Reply #29129 on: September 09, 2021, 16:07:06 pm »

Who said it was inappropriate?
You and your small band of cohorts seem to want to belittle the trust at every opportunity, perhaps you should get together and buy a chip shop, youíll never run out of raw materials.
Is it small band though Manny, Iím not so sure it is. Its not belittling to ask that your opinions are heard either. As I said suppressing opinions is not the way forward.
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« Reply #29130 on: September 09, 2021, 16:18:39 pm »

It's not 'sniping', it's Constructive Criticism.
I have had disagreements with individual fans, but that is what this message board is for, we all have differing opinions.  I have never let that spill over into anything of a personal nature nor never accused anyone of supporting one side or the other.

However, I have never once demeaned or criticised the intent of The Trust, just their methods of attempting to achieve that intent which, in my opinion, has once again fallen short of the standard that should be expected of our representative body.

Having only just looked at the Powerpoint Presentation, my last sentence is extant.

I will not comment further, at this time, because 'Back of the Net' has already added his views on the thread, even though he appears to have been slightly lenient and/or kind.
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« Reply #29131 on: September 10, 2021, 21:38:17 pm »

why Keith, Is it a constant reminder of the broken promise of building the East stand with our own funds ?

Just don't look mate, I know it makes unpleasant reading

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« Reply #29132 on: September 10, 2021, 21:39:15 pm »

Taken from June 2020 accounts

Cash in Bank     Us:  136,265       Exeter:   1,273,755   

Total Assets Less Current Liabilities:    Us: - 4,489,388   Exeter: +2,052,045

Debts (Creditors within 1 year)  Us 7,596,344    Exeter 2,202,777

Shareholder Funds   Us: -4,660,559    Exeter + 1,652,571

I have not cherry picked to suit, these are from the balance sheets.  Every single one we are not only getting beaten we are being thrashed.

So exactly how are Exeter - supporter owned, in a worse position than us with our want away land developer owners. Please please tell me


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« Reply #29133 on: September 10, 2021, 21:41:28 pm »

Can someone please tell me, is the East stand have 8 or 18 executive boxes?

What size and facilities will they have?

How many extra seats will we get for the £3m cost that the Council have to pay half for (and generate the other £1.5m on behalf of the owners)
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« Reply #29134 on: September 10, 2021, 21:52:28 pm »

Christ, Random, you not got anything else to do?

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« Reply #29135 on: September 10, 2021, 23:37:32 pm »

Taken from June 2020 accounts

Cash in Bank     Us:  136,265       Exeter:   1,273,755   

Total Assets Less Current Liabilities:    Us: - 4,489,388   Exeter: +2,052,045

Debts (Creditors within 1 year)  Us 7,596,344    Exeter 2,202,777

Shareholder Funds   Us: -4,660,559    Exeter + 1,652,571

I have not cherry picked to suit, these are from the balance sheets.  Every single one we are not only getting beaten we are being thrashed.

So exactly how are Exeter - supporter owned, in a worse position than us with our want away land developer owners. Please please tell me



For the sake of conversation what would be the benefit of having more in the bank than Exeter. Our owners could walk away at anytime and pocket the money. A pointless figure, very much like the minus figure against the shareholder funds, means nothing. How are Exeter in a worse position, I would guess they have less access to financial resource than us. They havenít secured promotion as often as us, they are in a lower league position than us, their youth system hasnít had as much success as ours, Northampton 4 Exeter 0, easy to tenuously cherry pick to suit isnít it. I still think their model is comparatively outstanding though, although I am not convinced it will deliver the on field success you demand to match.
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« Reply #29136 on: September 11, 2021, 10:15:20 am »

Melly, sorry someone who has spent the last xxx months talking about money and investment and profit, I show you some balance sheet figures and off you go talking about a one off result  Grin

You are seriously saying that having money in the bank is a disadvantage - come on mate really. 

I would not also agree about access to financial resources - 1. They are a club run to to its means so shouldn't need too much more. 2. They have £1m more in their bank than us so... (i know its a snapshot, the previous year they had even more) 3. They have access possibly to 1000's of people for funds, us, we rely on one 75 year old bloke leaving in Dubai.

Agree shareholder funds possibly meaningless, i don't know, but a £6m swing must mean something.

I see you didn't mention the £5.2m difference in debt or similar in total assets?  Again its a massive massive difference at this level.

Their youth system I think has raised more funds than ours although we have not more success lately however if each club was to receive £1m tomorrow for a player, which club would be better off? Where would that £1m go?

Clutching at straws re league position.

I haven't demanded on field success, actually far from it, do i think Northampton is capable of supporting Championship / Premier League - absolutely, at this stage I am focused on the infrastructure and getting us into a position where we have options to move forward, like Swansea, Wycombe, Portsmouth, Brentford, Hearts, AFC Wimbledon and Exeter.

I posted before that I would be happy to finish 18th in L2 for a season or two if it meant we were developing our own players. KT's data led player committee video flip flopped between going for promotion and our youth, what happens?  we sign 2 youngsters on loan !!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right their model is outstanding, as are some of the others above, I just would like some more of our fans to consider some of these alternatives and ask, why not us?  (and think has our last 2 owners and their business model worked for us?)
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« Reply #29137 on: September 11, 2021, 10:23:22 am »

Melly, sorry someone who has spent the last xxx months talking about money and investment and profit, I show you some balance sheet figures and off you go talking about a one off result  Grin

You are seriously saying that having money in the bank is a disadvantage - come on mate really. 

I would not also agree about access to financial resources - 1. They are a club run to to its means so shouldn't need too much more. 2. They have £1m more in their bank than us so... (i know its a snapshot, the previous year they had even more) 3. They have access possibly to 1000's of people for funds, us, we rely on one 75 year old bloke leaving in Dubai.

Agree shareholder funds possibly meaningless, i don't know, but a £6m swing must mean something.

I see you didn't mention the £5.2m difference in debt or similar in total assets?  Again its a massive massive difference at this level.

Their youth system I think has raised more funds than ours although we have not more success lately however if each club was to receive £1m tomorrow for a player, which club would be better off? Where would that £1m go?

Clutching at straws re league position.

I haven't demanded on field success, actually far from it, do i think Northampton is capable of supporting Championship / Premier League - absolutely, at this stage I am focused on the infrastructure and getting us into a position where we have options to move forward, like Swansea, Wycombe, Portsmouth, Brentford, Hearts, AFC Wimbledon and Exeter.

I posted before that I would be happy to finish 18th in L2 for a season or two if it meant we were developing our own players. KT's data led player committee video flip flopped between going for promotion and our youth, what happens?  we sign 2 youngsters on loan !!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right their model is outstanding, as are some of the others above, I just would like some more of our fans to consider some of these alternatives and ask, why not us?  (and think has our last 2 owners and their business model worked for us?)

Mate, this really isnít complicated. Hypothetically if we sold McWilliams for $10 million to Fulchester Rovers we would clear the debt and have a couple of million more than Exeter. So by your analogy in the unlikely senario that was to occur we would be more successful than Exeter. However, at the drop of a hat the owners could drain the bank and wander off into the sunset without a by your leave or thank you. So on that basis how is money in the bank any sort of advantage or security for us. Think about it.
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« Reply #29138 on: September 11, 2021, 13:15:26 pm »

Mate, this really isnít complicated. Hypothetically if we sold McWilliams for $10 million to Fulchester Rovers we would clear the debt and have a couple of million more than Exeter. So by your analogy in the unlikely senario that was to occur we would be more successful than Exeter. However, at the drop of a hat the owners could drain the bank and wander off into the sunset without a by your leave or thank you. So on that basis how is money in the bank any sort of advantage or security for us. Think about it.
That won't happen, Fulchester will never be interested in Sean.
Wouldn't be quite so sure about Koiki however...
What is the record transfer fee out of league 2 incidentally? Think it might need to get broken for us to become more financially solvent than Exeter (even for that short period before Mr Bowers removes his cut).
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« Reply #29139 on: September 12, 2021, 14:18:44 pm »

Thanks Deepcut for your explanation.

The "little information" is a big part of the issues, hence the 25 questions.  KT has chosen to keep the majority of the fans well and truly in the dark

There was a 35+ slides of ideas, facts, concerns and much more with the meeting, so I think they got enough of the story from the Trust's point of view, on what their objections are.

There is just no need for you to try and belittle the efforts.

I assume that you accuse the owners of the same... no substance and creditability, especially bearing in mind they are in control and have all the information on what they are planning





Were you at the meeting with WNC and The Trust Board?
You didn't answer the first time that I asked the question.
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ďThey shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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