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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1162183 times)
Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #29180 on: September 08, 2021, 18:30:18 pm »

er, A land deal to create £m's, the space around Sixfields to create a better stadium, the largest town in the country (so potential fanbase) and the smallest stadium capacity of any long-established league club. 

Infrastructure is the base of EVERY successful club that wants medium term growth. Look at Rotherham - Championship now, wasn't that long ago they were homeless and bankrupt twice, and they have 2 larger Sheffield Clubs on their doorstep


Took your advice and just looked at Rotherham Random. Apparently Tony Stewart has put in around 30 million plus and the losses are consistently considerable. Donít deliberately want to be a kill joy but someone has to say it, how is this realistic for us at this point.
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« Reply #29181 on: September 08, 2021, 20:29:36 pm »

Took your advice and just looked at Rotherham Random. Apparently Tony Stewart has put in around 30 million plus and the losses are consistently considerable. Donít deliberately want to be a kill joy but someone has to say it, how is this realistic for us at this point.

FFS Melly, it's always facts, facts, facts with you, isn't it...?
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« Reply #29182 on: September 08, 2021, 20:59:09 pm »

Took your advice and just looked at Rotherham Random. Apparently Tony Stewart has put in around 30 million plus and the losses are consistently considerable. Don’t deliberately want to be a kill joy but someone has to say it, how is this realistic for us at this point.

If I've told you once I've told you a thousand times not to exagerate.
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« Reply #29183 on: September 08, 2021, 21:54:51 pm »

Thats a wish,nothing wrong with that,but not an opportunity.
The opportunity is the money tied up in the land, how itís split is the million dollar question.
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« Reply #29184 on: September 09, 2021, 01:08:42 am »

Having read the Trust presentation I am struggling to understand the position. Iíve lost count of the amount of times this has been said but there is no real offering to get past the current status quo. The owners are being what they are which is investors. That means their priority is to make a profit. The long term future of the club is, was and always will be of secondary importance. Most of the issues raised are down to the original Sixfields construction. To change that footprint takes finance and there isnít a sustainable plan to address this at the moment and build a convincing case for a return. For example, the board of the Trust put forward MK Dons as a model, but my understanding is that this was financed in no insignificant part by Asda and IKEA to circumvent planning issues. Again finance for profit being the underlying message. This makes this part of the presentation somewhat ironic. I wonít go through each case but you donít have to dig too deep to find flaws in the examples that make applying them to NTFC irrelevant.

If you have investor owners then you have to accept that their priority is profit. What is the realistic alternative at this time, the 50+1 model is a fine ambition but unless it applies to the entire EFL it is fraught with danger. The most likely outcome is a prince and pauper scenario with some clubs living the dream as a billionaires toy whilst the morally admirable clubs struggle at the bottom. Pointing out the flaws with the current NTFC model is one thing, but whereís the plan and long term strategy to push the club forward, there is absolutely no substance to anything that I can see. At the moment the most appropriate analogy I can come up with is that its like reading The Emperorís New Clothes and likewise someone could end up embarrassingly exposed.

The other difficulty with the Trust boards approach is that once again it could be argued that this was a presentation by 4 Trust members representing the view of 9 Trust members. There may be other Trust members that share this view but thats difficult to ascertain at this point. If I were one of the owners that would be the message I would convey to West Northants Council. At the moment it could be suggested that the Trust board are terrified of canvassing their own membership as it may affect the agenda of the 9 individuals on the board that represent the Trust. They attack the investors but the accusation remains that they are afraid of canvassing and representing their own membership. Right or wrong you see how this compromises the position of the board of the Trust. They continually neuter themselves and are exposed to this kind of attack. IMO this renders them insignificant and to some extent much like the Emperor horribly exposed. Unfortunately without the proven majority endorsement of their membership and the wider support base The Trust Board are significantly reducing their effectiveness. Shoot the messenger if you like but it wonít change the bleeding obvious. Iíve said it before, get the endorsement of the membership and the support base chaps, then people will fear you. Although in the event this happens itís still unclear what the alternative future holds at this point. On we go into the unknown.
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« Reply #29185 on: September 09, 2021, 06:48:50 am »

"From the little information we have, it appears that..."

If you are starting a 'first impression' meeting with a new organisation with that preamble, your credibility has already gone.
WNC must have been stifling their giggles at the naive and amateur organisation sat before them.

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« Reply #29186 on: September 09, 2021, 07:11:31 am »

Having read the Trust presentation I am struggling to understand the position. Iíve lost count of the amount of times this has been said but there is no real offering to get past the current status quo. The owners are being what they are which is investors. That means their priority is to make a profit. The long term future of the club is, was and always will be of secondary importance. Most of the issues raised are down to the original Sixfields construction. To change that footprint takes finance and there isnít a sustainable plan to address this at the moment and build a convincing case for a return. For example, the board of the Trust put forward MK Dons as a model, but my understanding is that this was financed in no insignificant part by Asda and IKEA to circumvent planning issues. Again finance for profit being the underlying message. This makes this part of the presentation somewhat ironic. I wonít go through each case but you donít have to dig too deep to find flaws in the examples that make applying them to NTFC irrelevant.

If you have investor owners then you have to accept that their priority is profit. What is the realistic alternative at this time, the 50+1 model is a fine ambition but unless it applies to the entire EFL it is fraught with danger. The most likely outcome is a prince and pauper scenario with some clubs living the dream as a billionaires toy whilst the morally admirable clubs struggle at the bottom. Pointing out the flaws with the current NTFC model is one thing, but whereís the plan and long term strategy to push the club forward, there is absolutely no substance to anything that I can see. At the moment the most appropriate analogy I can come up with is that its like reading The Emperorís New Clothes and likewise someone could end up embarrassingly exposed.

The other difficulty with the Trust boards approach is that once again it could be argued that this was a presentation by 4 Trust members representing the view of 9 Trust members. There may be other Trust members that share this view but thats difficult to ascertain at this point. If I were one of the owners that would be the message I would convey to West Northants Council. At the moment it could be suggested that the Trust board are terrified of canvassing their own membership as it may affect the agenda of the 9 individuals on the board that represent the Trust. They attack the investors but the accusation remains that they are afraid of canvassing and representing their own membership. Right or wrong you see how this compromises the position of the board of the Trust. They continually neuter themselves and are exposed to this kind of attack. IMO this renders them insignificant and to some extent much like the Emperor horribly exposed. Unfortunately without the proven majority endorsement of their membership and the wider support base The Trust Board are significantly reducing their effectiveness. Shoot the messenger if you like but it wonít change the bleeding obvious. Iíve said it before, get the endorsement of the membership and the support base chaps, then people will fear you. Although in the event this happens itís still unclear what the alternative future holds at this point. On we go into the unknown.

A few people are going to be having an embolism over their cornflakes when they wake up and read this, Melly! Not that I disagree with one scintilla of it...
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« Reply #29187 on: September 09, 2021, 07:46:57 am »

Whatever the rights and wrongs or known and unknowns of the trusts arguments I take issue with their claim to be a democratic organisation when they do not canvas membership input to the stance they take.
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« Reply #29188 on: September 09, 2021, 08:04:59 am »

Whatever the rights and wrongs or known and unknowns of the trusts arguments I take issue with their claim to be a democratic organisation when they do not canvas membership input to the stance they take.
They are an elected body, not sure how much more democratic you can get.
If you donít like what they are doing join and voice your opinions.
Personally I think they are doing a great job, keep up the good work.
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« Reply #29189 on: September 09, 2021, 08:39:16 am »

Took your advice and just looked at Rotherham Random. Apparently Tony Stewart has put in around 30 million plus and the losses are consistently considerable. Donít deliberately want to be a kill joy but someone has to say it, how is this realistic for us at this point.

The point I am making is, how many fans would have thought on the news that the club was bankrupt that in a few years time, they would have been in a new fancy stadium heading towards the Championship? Pretty sure they would have said it was unrealistic. So whats the alternative Melly, we bump along on the whims of owners who solely want to make a profit out of land deals? 
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« Reply #29190 on: September 09, 2021, 08:47:56 am »

So Melly, in a 35+ slide presentation you only take a bit about MK?  A slide that is showing what our local rivals have achieved, showing how they are developing and moving forward.

You also talk of no substance, what did you think to NTFC's East Stand & Development Overview?  In it they state, "a lot of people have worked very hard to this point" OK great, but where is the substance? The lack of information and clarity was staggering



 

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« Reply #29191 on: September 09, 2021, 08:50:07 am »

"From the little information we have, it appears that..."

If you are starting a 'first impression' meeting with a new organisation with that preamble, your credibility has already gone.
WNC must have been stifling their giggles at the naive and amateur organisation sat before them.



Nice try Deep, thats not the impression I got !! 

What do you think WNC think of our owners and the way they have acted?
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« Reply #29192 on: September 09, 2021, 08:56:34 am »

The Trust is doing exactly what it should be doing and that is outlining the fears and concerns of folk who care about the football club. They are not professional 'trust' people because they are made up of bakers and candlestick makers. If anyone cares enough and can be bothered they are free to join and influence the efforts these people make without having digs from the outer reaches. They have shown everybody exactly what they presented to WNC which is a world apart from what the club have shown us,   nothing has been heard about the July meeting. The club is owned by a property developer, that is a fact. His aim is not to further a football team, it is to maximise his return. Once he has stripped the assets and scarpered where will NTFC be then?
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« Reply #29193 on: September 09, 2021, 08:58:46 am »

Also Melly, the old chestnut of representing their members !  Do you believe WNC are more worried that the meeting wasn't with 200 plus Trust members offering support than the fact that KT promised to build the East stand with their own funds 6 years ago but now say only if we get our money back will we build it, I don't think so.

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

Problem is that the local council have been made to look like idiots at least 4 times by the owners of NTFC, you really think they are willing to run hand in hand with some of those same owners for the very limited benefit that the current proposal offers.
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« Reply #29194 on: September 09, 2021, 09:01:54 am »

The Trust is doing exactly what it should be doing and that is outlining the fears and concerns of folk who care about the football club. They are not professional 'trust' people because they are made up of bakers and candlestick makers. If anyone cares enough and can be bothered they are free to join and influence the efforts these people make without having digs from the outer reaches. They have shown everybody exactly what they presented to WNC which is a world apart from what the club have shown us,   nothing has been heard about the July meeting. The club is owned by a property developer, that is a fact. His aim is not to further a football team, it is to maximise his return. Once he has stripped the assets and scarpered where will NTFC be then?

Great post, so well put.

The really sad thing is that there are people on here who seem to take pleasure in the "facts" above

The really really sad thing is that some of those are moderators of this very board
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« Reply #29195 on: September 09, 2021, 09:02:30 am »

Nice try Deep, thats not the impression I got !! 

What do you think WNC think of our owners and the way they have acted?

Were you there?
If WNC think that they are dealing with a professional organisation from that 'meeting' preamble and content, they are obviously on the same level as The Trust.

No idea, but I would assume that the club were slightly more professional during their first meeting.
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« Reply #29196 on: September 09, 2021, 09:04:56 am »

Great post, so well put.

The really sad thing is that there are people on here who seem to take pleasure in the "facts" above

The really really sad thing is that some of those are moderators of this very board

I agree that it is sad and I take no pleasure from it, but I am offering my personal opinion from the facts, as presented by The Trust.
The fact that I am a Moderator is immaterial.
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« Reply #29197 on: September 09, 2021, 09:07:20 am »

Were you there?
If WNC think that they are dealing with a professional organisation from that 'meeting' preamble and content, they are obviously on the same level as The Trust.

No idea, but I would assume that the club were slightly more professional during their first meeting.


So were you there?  What do you mean re "preamble" and what does more professional look like?
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« Reply #29198 on: September 09, 2021, 09:11:04 am »

melly, so a better business plan is to reply on a 75 year old who lives 3500 miles, who has been to the ground about 4 times

Have you seen their business plans, cashflow forecasts?  Have you seen DB's Will?  what does it say about the future of NTFC?

What happens if and when they walk away?  You really think this is better for NTFC?  Doesn't stand up to scrutiny does it.

Fact is you, me , almost no-one has an idea or control on the future on NTFC at this stage. And you seem very happy with that, sadly

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« Reply #29199 on: September 09, 2021, 09:12:18 am »

Sorry Melly, 1 more

So who would you model NTFC on?  What can be achieved?  What should be the ambition?  What would you advise?
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