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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1286921 times)
Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #29200 on: September 09, 2021, 10:49:54 am »

Deepcut, why are you so supportive of owners over fans, just like you were with Cardoza?



Am I, was I?
Show me where I have been supportive of owners over fans...I am also 'a fan'.

Although I have had conversations with individual 'The Trust' board members, I have no ties or had any interactions whatsoever with any owners past or present.
My opinions and observations are constructive criticism based on facts as presented, in order for The Trust to up their game, they are not a personal slight to any organisation or any one, including yourself.
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« Reply #29201 on: September 09, 2021, 11:12:40 am »

You do love Marx type comments, ‘ordinary folk’  expressing their views against Property Developers🙃
Karl or Groucho ??
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« Reply #29202 on: September 09, 2021, 11:53:00 am »

In terms of our recent history (post County Ground) it all went pear shaped the moment a 'mismanaged' (think we are safe to call it mismanaged) loan was handed over to Cardoza and the surrounding land became a bargaining chip. It would surely be less painful to take all of the land off the table, at least then we'd see where we are heading.
If only we did an MK and got some big boys on board to bankroll something a bit more special. Our backward thinking council(s) take the brunt for most of the towns issues, Sixfields and beyond.

I don't think KT and co are the anti-Christ that some make out but they are never going to create an exciting and progressive business and brand. They've had long enough to show some glimmers of that. All we have seen is that we are likely to bounce around the bottom leagues and generate debt. There is clearly an element that don't think they are entitled to make a personal profit off any land deal, without even taking the current debt back. That's not realistic.
As for assurances to the club, I'm not sure what this would look like, unless people want to see a % split?! We don't seem to be able to get to the bottom of past legal financial issues, so forget moral ones!

I really don't know what to think of the Trust. I don't buy the bit about having to run every angle past members because that is what an elected board is for.
If anyone is that passionate and believes the Trust is rotten and beyond reproach, then get together and set up a Trust mark 2.
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« Reply #29203 on: September 09, 2021, 12:48:44 pm »

In terms of our recent history (post County Ground) it all went pear shaped the moment a 'mismanaged' (think we are safe to call it mismanaged) loan was handed over to Cardoza and the surrounding land became a bargaining chip. It would surely be less painful to take all of the land off the table, at least then we'd see where we are heading.
If only we did an MK and got some big boys on board to bankroll something a bit more special. Our backward thinking council(s) take the brunt for most of the towns issues, Sixfields and beyond.

I don't think KT and co are the anti-Christ that some make out but they are never going to create an exciting and progressive business and brand. They've had long enough to show some glimmers of that. All we have seen is that we are likely to bounce around the bottom leagues and generate debt. There is clearly an element that don't think they are entitled to make a personal profit off any land deal, without even taking the current debt back. That's not realistic.
As for assurances to the club, I'm not sure what this would look like, unless people want to see a % split?! We don't seem to be able to get to the bottom of past legal financial issues, so forget moral ones!

I really don't know what to think of the Trust. I don't buy the bit about having to run every angle past members because that is what an elected board is for.
If anyone is that passionate and believes the Trust is rotten and beyond reproach, then get together and set up a Trust mark 2.
Elected by who Tone, hands up any members who voted for the 2 recent additions to the board. I get that it’s not that straightforward but I am just making the point that the board continually leave themselves wide open. For the record I think Simon comes across as a decent guy and given the chance I may well have voted for him. Not quite the point though is it?
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« Reply #29204 on: September 09, 2021, 13:10:19 pm »

Elected by who Tone, hands up any members who voted for the 2 recent additions to the board. I get that it’s not that straightforward but I am just making the point that the board continually leave themselves wide open. For the record I think Simon comes across as a decent guy and given the chance I may well have voted for him. Not quite the point though is it?
All this hypothetical backbiting is pointless and a bit like pîssing in the sea, the trust is made up of fans and the fact of the matter is they are trying to get a better deal for the club.
Your like or quite obvious dislike of the trust is insignificant and completely irrelevant.
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« Reply #29205 on: September 09, 2021, 13:11:17 pm »

So were you there?  What do you mean re "preamble" and what does more professional look like?

No, were you?
Preamble is their opening line which has been reported as being "From the little information we have, it appears that..."
To go to something like this, you need to be confident and fully prepared in order to provide little option but for the WNC to take your version as an accurate/credible account.  
That opening line indicates that The Trust know that they want to oppose/object to something to do with the WNC/NTFC, but don't really know what.  There is no substance or credibility to anything that they have said after that.  A distinct lack of the 6P's principle.  Sad

The current statement/notice is like a schoolkid going to the Headmaster complaining that someone has pinched something or hasn't played by the rules for something, that they are not entirely sure what has been pinched, or what rules they haven't played by and then expecting the Headmaster to get them back or adhere to those rules that they are not sure of.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29206 on: September 09, 2021, 13:21:19 pm »

All this hypothetical backbiting is pointless and a bit like pîssing in the sea, the trust is made up of fans and the fact of the matter is they are trying to get a better deal for the club.
Your like or quite obvious dislike of the trust is insignificant and completely irrelevant.
I am the Trust Manny, because I’m a member. The board members come and go but their job should be to represent the interests of the membership. They have never asked me to vote on anything ever, and that doesn’t sit comfortably with me. That’s my opinion and as a lifetime member I’m entitled. Not having a go mate
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« Reply #29207 on: September 09, 2021, 13:47:02 pm »

Thanks Deepcut for your explanation.

The "little information" is a big part of the issues, hence the 25 questions.  KT has chosen to keep the majority of the fans well and truly in the dark

There was a 35+ slides of ideas, facts, concerns and much more with the meeting, so I think they got enough of the story from the Trust's point of view, on what their objections are.

There is just no need for you to try and belittle the efforts.

I assume that you accuse the owners of the same... no substance and creditability, especially bearing in mind they are in control and have all the information on what they are planning



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« Reply #29208 on: September 09, 2021, 13:49:22 pm »

Am I, was I?
Show me where I have been supportive of owners over fans...I am also 'a fan'.

Although I have had conversations with individual 'The Trust' board members, I have no ties or had any interactions whatsoever with any owners past or present.
My opinions and observations are constructive criticism based on facts as presented, in order for The Trust to up their game, they are not a personal slight to any organisation or any one, including yourself.

I can show you plenty of examples of your sniping posts at the fans (ie The Trust and others) whilst cannot find any aimed at the owners.
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« Reply #29209 on: September 09, 2021, 13:54:52 pm »

I am the Trust Manny, because I’m a member. The board members come and go but their job should be to represent the interests of the membership. They have never asked me to vote on anything ever, and that doesn’t sit comfortably with me. That’s my opinion and as a lifetime member I’m entitled. Not having a go mate

In that case get in touch with the Trust and express your views. Things don't change just because you want them to. Alternatively contact WNC or whoever personally and present your own opinion. Constantly undermining the only body that is making an effort in all of this shambles to highlight concerns by spouting negatives on a two-bit forum is pointless.
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« Reply #29210 on: September 09, 2021, 14:10:57 pm »

I've said this many times, while I'm fundamentally opposed to the Trust's (or rather the Trust board's) stance regarding the redevelopment, I've always thought they are acting with the best intentions. That said, I think that their incompetence, naivety and generalised idealism is going to end up doing more harm than good to the football club, but that's another matter; I've always thought they meant well.

I've just read a number of comments on the Trust's Facebook post about the latest meeting and I think that "best intentions" part might be going down the pan. They seem to be developing a bunker mentality and just lashing out at anyone who challenges them (and I'm getting the feeling that most people DON'T now support their current stance). One guy on there would appear to be an accountant and is challenging them on their accounts. I've no idea who is right and who isn't, but this was the response from one of the Trust board members:

Quote
If, hypothetically, a qualified accountant publishes deliberately incorrect information in the public domain (such as £14K on office expenses when it was in fact £6,900), this is a potential breach of the IESBA Code of Ethics in respect of (a) professional behaviour and (b) integrity, both of which are fundamental principles as clearly explained in the ICAEW rule book.

That to me isn't part of a balanced debate, it's a veiled threat and a pretty unpleasant one at that.

This is the organisation that is meant to represent the fans.

If a fan challenges them, they are entitled to do so and should certainly not expect to receive this sort of a response if they do. I can't help but think that if the Trust feel under fire, instead of circling the wagons they would be better advised to have a long hard look at why so many of the people they claim to represent feel the need to "attack" them in the first place.
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« Reply #29211 on: September 09, 2021, 14:16:54 pm »

In that case get in touch with the Trust and express your views. Things don't change just because you want them to. Alternatively contact WNC or whoever personally and present your own opinion. Constantly undermining the only body that is making an effort in all of this shambles to highlight concerns by spouting negatives on a two-bit forum is pointless.
To be fair the observation is correct, despite being a lifetime member my opinion is insignificant and completely irrelevant. FYI I have emailed the Trust directly with my views upon receipt of their email. If the board are confident of their position then they should welcome any challenge to their position and the opportunity to respond, that’s how you build confidence and reassurance. Members that have concerns and fears have a right to voice them and have them addressed, that’s what inclusivity is all about. Somebody please tell me why this is inappropriate?
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« Reply #29212 on: September 09, 2021, 15:23:43 pm »

To be fair the observation is correct, despite being a lifetime member my opinion is insignificant and completely irrelevant. FYI I have emailed the Trust directly with my views upon receipt of their email. If the board are confident of their position then they should welcome any challenge to their position and the opportunity to respond, that’s how you build confidence and reassurance. Members that have concerns and fears have a right to voice them and have them addressed, that’s what inclusivity is all about. Somebody please tell me why this is inappropriate?
Who said it was inappropriate?
You and your small band of cohorts seem to want to belittle the trust at every opportunity, perhaps you should get together and buy a chip shop, you’ll never run out of raw materials.
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« Reply #29213 on: September 09, 2021, 15:34:43 pm »

Can someone quickly recap how the Trust went from having a seat on the club board to losing it....and whether this is an underlying issue/cause of bad feeling since it happened.
On a previous comment...I didn't realise the Trust board weren't elected/re-elected by the wider membership.
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« Reply #29214 on: September 09, 2021, 15:44:42 pm »

I can show you plenty of examples of your sniping posts at the fans (ie The Trust and others) whilst cannot find any aimed at the owners.

It's not 'sniping', it's Constructive Criticism.
I have had disagreements with individual fans, but that is what this message board is for, we all have differing opinions.  I have never let that spill over into anything of a personal nature nor never accused anyone of supporting one side or the other.

However, I have never once demeaned or criticised the intent of The Trust, just their methods of attempting to achieve that intent which, in my opinion, has once again fallen short of the standard that should be expected of our representative body.
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Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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« Reply #29215 on: September 09, 2021, 16:07:06 pm »

Who said it was inappropriate?
You and your small band of cohorts seem to want to belittle the trust at every opportunity, perhaps you should get together and buy a chip shop, you’ll never run out of raw materials.
Is it small band though Manny, I’m not so sure it is. Its not belittling to ask that your opinions are heard either. As I said suppressing opinions is not the way forward.
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« Reply #29216 on: September 09, 2021, 16:18:39 pm »

It's not 'sniping', it's Constructive Criticism.
I have had disagreements with individual fans, but that is what this message board is for, we all have differing opinions.  I have never let that spill over into anything of a personal nature nor never accused anyone of supporting one side or the other.

However, I have never once demeaned or criticised the intent of The Trust, just their methods of attempting to achieve that intent which, in my opinion, has once again fallen short of the standard that should be expected of our representative body.

Having only just looked at the Powerpoint Presentation, my last sentence is extant.

I will not comment further, at this time, because 'Back of the Net' has already added his views on the thread, even though he appears to have been slightly lenient and/or kind.
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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« Reply #29217 on: September 10, 2021, 21:38:17 pm »

why Keith, Is it a constant reminder of the broken promise of building the East stand with our own funds ?

Just don't look mate, I know it makes unpleasant reading

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« Reply #29218 on: September 10, 2021, 21:39:15 pm »

Taken from June 2020 accounts

Cash in Bank     Us:  136,265       Exeter:   1,273,755   

Total Assets Less Current Liabilities:    Us: - 4,489,388   Exeter: +2,052,045

Debts (Creditors within 1 year)  Us 7,596,344    Exeter 2,202,777

Shareholder Funds   Us: -4,660,559    Exeter + 1,652,571

I have not cherry picked to suit, these are from the balance sheets.  Every single one we are not only getting beaten we are being thrashed.

So exactly how are Exeter - supporter owned, in a worse position than us with our want away land developer owners. Please please tell me


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« Reply #29219 on: September 10, 2021, 21:41:28 pm »

Can someone please tell me, is the East stand have 8 or 18 executive boxes?

What size and facilities will they have?

How many extra seats will we get for the £3m cost that the Council have to pay half for (and generate the other £1.5m on behalf of the owners)
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