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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1370614 times)
guest168
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« Reply #29260 on: October 05, 2021, 01:25:19 am »

Thanks CJ for your support, it is appreciated.

Totally agree with your recent posts Melly, people are frightened of change I'm afraid, simple as

On just about every level, we have failed as a club, we have failed to even look at any options or opportunities.

This £3m basic East stand, where the likes of BOTH, MCHammer, Deepcut, Hammy, Singcobb have been jumping up and down in their support of such mediocrity, typifies everything about why we are 10th in L2 and the lowest scorers (again)

They would rather shoot the messenger than face the reality that with every passing month, their support of the owners becomes more and more st............. (fill in your own answer, I don't want to rub more salt in their wounds)

It wasn't the Trust that sold the club without telling anyone for £6.68m from a suspicious Chinese source (and they are still not telling anyone)

The only way they can make themselves feel better is to attack myself and other Trust members with some with insane notion that we don't represent the fans.

Most fans want higher league football - so does the Trust

Most fans want an owner that put their club 1st - so does the Trust

Most fans want a better match day experience - so does the Trust

Most fans want the football to be an exciting, day out escape - so does the Trust

Most fans want their football club to be honest and sustainable - so does the Trust

Most fans want Sixfields to be vastly improved as a venue - so does the Trust
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« Reply #29261 on: October 05, 2021, 01:35:15 am »

For the Trust to represent them (BOTN, Hammy etc etc) then the Trust would have to be happy and support

1. The owners selling the club for £6.68m to suspicious Chinese 'investors'

2. The owners piling £7m debt with no increase in assets

3. The owners allowing Sixfields to rot around our ears

4. The owners not to invest in decent players

5. The owners not to have any medium or long term plans for NTFC

6. The owners trying to move part of the ACV land into other holdings to build warehouses on

7. The owners whose main focus is on making money by selling assets of the club / people of Northampton  AKA Asset stripping

This makes uncomfortable reading which I hope most genuine Northampton Town supporters agree is NOT the fault of myself or the Trust, but that of our owners, Mr Kelvin Thomas, Chairman and 5% owner (actually I believe the Trust is a bigger shareholder) and Mr & MRS David Bower -

For those of you who don't know, Mr Bower is a friend of KT, a retired Oxford solicitor and property developer, now living in Dubai and has attended around 5 Cobblers games in 6 years.

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« Reply #29262 on: October 05, 2021, 03:10:18 am »

Fair comment Carton, I have been critical of the Club in the past, managerial appointments,  ground improvements being just a couple of items. If the owners want to invest millions of pounds in a Club, but hardly turn up, is that a real problem ? Certainly not as bad as not investing money in a club by attending matches,  but constantly berating it.
What is the problem in selling a club without asking the fans ? It's the owners club, they can sell it if they want, berating them just because people feel they should have been asked is bordering on a child stamping it's feet and throwing a tantrum.
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« Reply #29263 on: October 05, 2021, 07:24:55 am »


This £3m basic East stand, where the likes of BOTH, MCHammer, Deepcut, Hammy, Singcobb have been jumping up and down in their support of such mediocrity, typifies everything about why we are 10th in L2 and the lowest scorers (again)


The rest of your post maybe valid, but as soon as you lie, it pales into total insignificance.
Provide proof of your statement or retract the statement that you have attributed to me.
An 'in your opinion' doesn't justify the lie that has been offered as a statement of fact. 
Yet another post where your personal credibility, has been even further diminished.
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« Reply #29264 on: October 05, 2021, 08:02:48 am »

These overseas members of the Forum make a lot of fuss over a few things they cannot possibly influence. An exception is of course Feelgood who puts everybody off with his ongoing negative results banter.

Here we go again - the little Britain and wrong view of Everbrite.

Iím afraid I canít be as polite as Melly on this one - but the suggestion that location cannot influence events shows what a blinkered view he has on the world.

Just a few fact that I suggest you read slowly and perhaps twice (and yes Iím being deliberately patronising).

Like Melly I wrote directly to the trust expressing some concerns - they replied and invited me to their next board meeting. I attended and they listened to my concerns and were very open on the points  raised - we might not have agreed on all points but it was refreshingly open dialogue and I have since had further one to one dialogue with another 3 members of the trust board.

You repeatedly dig at overseas iFollow watchers of the game are less qualified to comment on the game - whilst I concede that view doesnít allow for a wider perspective or off the ball incidents and movements but are you really telling me your eyesight is so good you can always see correctly an on the ball incident at the opposite side of the ground - compared with a close up camera view and a replay?

Again and in other posts you imply people who donít attend games are less entitled to comment - I canít speak for others but in the 12 years I have not lived in Northampton Iíve attended over 250 games and would calculate my mileage exceeds that of a full home and away supporter in that time.

 
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« Reply #29265 on: October 05, 2021, 08:47:09 am »

These overseas members of the Forum make a lot of fuss over a few things they cannot possibly influence. An exception is of course Feelgood who puts everybody off with his ongoing negative results banter.

He doesn't put me off.
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« Reply #29266 on: October 05, 2021, 09:03:25 am »

To be honest Evers, thats not strictly true anyway. A few weeks ago as a life member I emailed the board of the Trust with my concerns regarding their engagement with the club and the Trust membership. The board then responded and invited me to a board meeting via zoom to further discuss the issues raised. Unfortunately it was impractical for me to attend for a variety of reasons. Representatives of the board were then kind enough to offer to speak with me at my convenience and this took place last Thursday and lasted around 2 hours between myself and 3 board members +1

The items raised have been well documented, as has the general position of the board by individual board members on here in a personal capacity. I would describe the meeting as a cordial and frank exchange of views, where ultimately he position of both parties remains unchanged. That being said I thought it was an extraordinary gesture on the part of those individuals to indulge and accomodate me and I was most grateful for their time. I found them polite, respectful and patient as we went through the various topics of discussion. Should you be a member and wish to be heard and get a deeper understanding of the boards general position, I would recommend you take the initiative and contact the board personally. I would certainly find it difficult to accuse them of being unwilling to engage with the membership on an individual level in future, if nothing else.

If I can find it achievable to actively engage with the board of the Trust from 10,514 miles and what was a 9 hour time difference, then there is no reason why anybody canít. In fact whilst it is not my place to speak for the board, I think it is fair to say they would actively encourage the membership to do so. Also in fairness I am not sure I did influence anything and as stated my concerns and the main points of difference remain. However, my geographical location doesnít appear to have diminished my ability to do so, particularly as the board members involved were kind enough to oblige.

With all due respect Evers, as a result it also makes a nonsense of your statement in some ways?
Well done Melbourne and well done Trust board.
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« Reply #29267 on: October 05, 2021, 09:45:50 am »

The rest of your post maybe valid, but as soon as you lie, it pales into total insignificance.
Provide proof of your statement or retract the statement that you have attributed to me.
An 'in your opinion' doesn't justify the lie that has been offered as a statement of fact. 
Yet another post where your personal credibility, has been even further diminished.

OK Deepcut you win, I apologise.  Would 'acceptance' be better than 'support' then.

As I can't recall you posting anything against it. Please point to your posts if i'm wrong.

You are very quick in your nit-picking of myself and others yet very very slow at posting anything that could remotely be negative as far as KT is concerned.

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« Reply #29268 on: October 05, 2021, 10:21:55 am »

Dear Melly and CW will reply to your posts after tonightís game. All the best.
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« Reply #29269 on: October 05, 2021, 11:25:11 am »

OK Deepcut you win, I apologise.  Would 'acceptance' be better than 'support' then.

As I can't recall you posting anything against it. Please point to your posts if i'm wrong.

You are very quick in your nit-picking of myself and others yet very very slow at posting anything that could remotely be negative as far as KT is concerned.


Shame, your first sentence satisfied my request, then you continued with a couple of unsubstantiated allegations and/or attributions that ruined it.
You assume that because I do not comment against something, it means that I endorse or accept it?
You accuse me of nit picking of yourself and 'others'?
I call it constructively criticising or providing my opinion about posts where I believe that something or someone, purely in my opinion, is wrong.
I normally fire and forget if my comment does receive a response and/or doesn't attract a response that requires further pursuance.

I do respond and/or comment about posts or information provided by those associated with those posts/information that can I believe can have an effect with those who post on here.  You do not know if I provide comment or opinion on other forums or medium?

If KT/DB posted on here and I disagreed or felt the need to question or disagree with them, I would.  They don't, so I don't have the opportunity to post anything negative that would affect their work through this medium. 
I choose my 'battles' in order to give me the best effect or method of success to win the 'war'.  Criticising KT/DB on here is not one of those battles.
I am a life member of The Trust, The Trust have that opportunity and are asking the questions that need to be asked (and answered) of them on my and the other Trust members behalf.  I have never criticised the intent, I have however criticised the method of achieving that intent, in a constructive way.  If you and the Trust Board do not acknowledge that, then there is a problem with The Trust Board and it's perceived/believed representation of it's members. 
I do not know if my constructive criticism has had an effect, but I do know that the latest Trust Board response to the notice of a fan being elected to the NTFC Board was a definite improvement on what has gone before and I did acknowledge that on here.

I acknowledge your enthusiasm and declared motivation but criticise/comment on your continual one sided and repetitive posts that, in my opinion, are damaging the support of The Trust to the wider (within this message boards limitation) fan base.  You need to stop posting from the hip, repeating the same mantra, assuming that anyone who doesn't necessarily agree with you is pro KT/DB. 
You would probably be surprised at how many agree with your basic message, but are put off by your aggressive and repetitious method of hi-jacking the majority of conversations, with dubious 'factual' statements which has now become background or white noise to me, if not the many more.
Allow others to have an opinion and listen to them without aggressively telling them that they are wrong.  Be more frugal and succinct with your contributions, responding directly in a balanced way to the concern(s) that are expressed and you might have greater success.
Your contribution, performance and statements on here, as a co-opted member of The Trust Board, isn't encouraging anyone to join or even get back on board with The Trust, I believe that you are actually doing more harm than good in that respect.

I am a Trust member and like the majority want the best for NTFC. If that is through The Trust or by utilising other methods then so be it. Banging on what is currently a closed/locked door doesn't deploy resources to the best effect.  That door needs to be opened or at least unlocked. The current methods deployed by The Trust do not appear to be achieving that minimum.

This is constructive criticism, not nit picking, just so that you do not confuse the two again.
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« Reply #29270 on: October 05, 2021, 12:01:33 pm »

Think you will find it is KT who has bolted the door not the Trust. It started a long long time ago. If I list everything again you moan I am just repeating myself

I am defending myself and the Trust as it doesn't matter what they do it is wrong in your eyes

You can say that you don't blah blah blah

Why not implore our owners to do more, they currently are in control and have most of the power

Again its not mine or the Trust's fault that we are underachieving so badly and KT has delivered zero value as a Chairman.

Sorry I'm not fluffy, I don't say things I don't mean or I know are incorrect, just to appease you or the owners

Sorry i struggle to find much that the club does as positive, that has been done for the medium term, has been planned and well thought out or certainly better or different that what the vast majority of other clubs do.

Again you are shooting the messenger.

Why not try and win me over then, again tell me 3 reasons why I should support KT as our own and Chairman



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« Reply #29271 on: October 05, 2021, 12:04:55 pm »

Think you will find it is KT who has bolted the door not the Trust. It started a long long time ago. If I list everything again you moan I am just repeating myself

I am defending myself and the Trust as it doesn't matter what they do it is wrong in your eyes

You can say that you don't blah blah blah

Why not implore our owners to do more, they currently are in control and have most of the power

Again its not mine or the Trust's fault that we are underachieving so badly and KT has delivered zero value as a Chairman.

Sorry I'm not fluffy, I don't say things I don't mean or I know are incorrect, just to appease you or the owners

Sorry i struggle to find much that the club does as positive, that has been done for the medium term, has been planned and well thought out or certainly better or different that what the vast majority of other clubs do.

Again you are shooting the messenger.

Why not try and win me over then, again tell me 3 reasons why I should support KT as our own and Chairman


You haven't read one word of what I have put have you?
Sorry, you may have read it, but not understood?  Roll Eyes
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ďThey shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.Ē Laurence Binyon

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« Reply #29272 on: October 05, 2021, 12:12:52 pm »

Here we go again - the little Britain and wrong view of Everbrite.

Iím afraid I canít be as polite as Melly on this one - but the suggestion that location cannot influence events shows what a blinkered view he has on the world.

Just a few fact that I suggest you read slowly and perhaps twice (and yes Iím being deliberately patronising).

Like Melly I wrote directly to the trust expressing some concerns - they replied and invited me to their next board meeting. I attended and they listened to my concerns and were very open on the points  raised - we might not have agreed on all points but it was refreshingly open dialogue and I have since had further one to one dialogue with another 3 members of the trust board.

You repeatedly dig at overseas iFollow watchers of the game are less qualified to comment on the game - whilst I concede that view doesnít allow for a wider perspective or off the ball incidents and movements but are you really telling me your eyesight is so good you can always see correctly an on the ball incident at the opposite side of the ground - compared with a close up camera view and a replay?

Again and in other posts you imply people who donít attend games are less entitled to comment - I canít speak for others but in the 12 years I have not lived in Northampton Iíve attended over 250 games and would calculate my mileage exceeds that of a full home and away supporter in that time.

 

Well said CW.

Finding fans distanced or unable to regularly make it to games on a forum? Whatever next?

It would take a special kind of numpty to think fans based abroad shouldn't have a voice or opinion. In fact when at the game live I see far less than I do at home watching on TV. I'm generally not so pissed at home nor gesticulating and shouting abuse at away fans, only the Mrs.
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« Reply #29273 on: October 05, 2021, 12:46:58 pm »

Oh dear! quite sad that you find it necessary to get "pissed" to attend a game and also to "shout abuse at the away fans". But each to their own, if that's what rocks your boat so be it but be careful not to get so "pissed" that you go overboard.

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« Reply #29274 on: October 05, 2021, 13:14:21 pm »

Think you will find it is KT who has bolted the door not the Trust. It started a long long time ago. If I list everything again you moan I am just repeating myself

Why not try and win me over then, again tell me 3 reasons why I should support KT as our own and Chairman

The first point I dont agree with. He closed it but hasnt bolted it. He's offered to open the door virtually but it's the Trust on the outside of the door through their own decisions. The reasons why have been well discussed and I understand them but dont agree with them. But to say he has bolted the door is incorrect.

You don't have to support KT, or even like him personally to have a working relationship with him. The club and the Trust need to find a way to put their differences aside to work collaboratively to ensure the best possible outcome of both the club and the supporters.
It has at times felt like progress has been made only to be followed by a statement of unnecessary comments FROM BOTH SIDES.
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« Reply #29275 on: October 05, 2021, 15:25:03 pm »

Well I'm going to the match tonight, so tomorrow I shall disregard anything posted by someone who's not there tonight !  Wink
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« Reply #29276 on: October 05, 2021, 16:27:51 pm »

The first point I dont agree with. He closed it but hasnt bolted it. He's offered to open the door virtually but it's the Trust on the outside of the door through their own decisions. The reasons why have been well discussed and I understand them but dont agree with them. But to say he has bolted the door is incorrect.

You don't have to support KT, or even like him personally to have a working relationship with him. The club and the Trust need to find a way to put their differences aside to work collaboratively to ensure the best possible outcome of both the club and the supporters.
It has at times felt like progress has been made only to be followed by a statement of unnecessary comments FROM BOTH SIDES.


Woody - perfectly matches my sentiment- to move forward there has to be a cooperative arrangement between the club, the council and the fans - the trust I believe, have done a good job of cultivating a very positive relationship with the council but unless that can translate to a similar relationship with the club itís probably of little value -  however good, bad or indifferent KT is, continued demonising him is not going to progress anything - in fact more likely to encourage a more entrenched view on his side. We all get the criticisms and they donít need to be repeated (most agree with many of them) - but wouldnít a wiser course to look at ways to mediate. Iím not saying that is easy but at least toning down the hostility might start to build bridges.
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« Reply #29277 on: October 05, 2021, 16:28:40 pm »

Shame, your first sentence satisfied my request, then you continued with a couple of unsubstantiated allegations and/or attributions that ruined it.
You assume that because I do not comment against something, it means that I endorse or accept it?
You accuse me of nit picking of yourself and 'others'?
I call it constructively criticising or providing my opinion about posts where I believe that something or someone, purely in my opinion, is wrong.
I normally fire and forget if my comment does receive a response and/or doesn't attract a response that requires further pursuance.

I do respond and/or comment about posts or information provided by those associated with those posts/information that can I believe can have an effect with those who post on here.  You do not know if I provide comment or opinion on other forums or medium?

If KT/DB posted on here and I disagreed or felt the need to question or disagree with them, I would.  They don't, so I don't have the opportunity to post anything negative that would affect their work through this medium. 
I choose my 'battles' in order to give me the best effect or method of success to win the 'war'.  Criticising KT/DB on here is not one of those battles.
I am a life member of The Trust, The Trust have that opportunity and are asking the questions that need to be asked (and answered) of them on my and the other Trust members behalf.  I have never criticised the intent, I have however criticised the method of achieving that intent, in a constructive way.  If you and the Trust Board do not acknowledge that, then there is a problem with The Trust Board and it's perceived/believed representation of it's members. 
I do not know if my constructive criticism has had an effect, but I do know that the latest Trust Board response to the notice of a fan being elected to the NTFC Board was a definite improvement on what has gone before and I did acknowledge that on here.

I acknowledge your enthusiasm and declared motivation but criticise/comment on your continual one sided and repetitive posts that, in my opinion, are damaging the support of The Trust to the wider (within this message boards limitation) fan base.  You need to stop posting from the hip, repeating the same mantra, assuming that anyone who doesn't necessarily agree with you is pro KT/DB. 
You would probably be surprised at how many agree with your basic message, but are put off by your aggressive and repetitious method of hi-jacking the majority of conversations, with dubious 'factual' statements which has now become background or white noise to me, if not the many more.
Allow others to have an opinion and listen to them without aggressively telling them that they are wrong.  Be more frugal and succinct with your contributions, responding directly in a balanced way to the concern(s) that are expressed and you might have greater success.
Your contribution, performance and statements on here, as a co-opted member of The Trust Board, isn't encouraging anyone to join or even get back on board with The Trust, I believe that you are actually doing more harm than good in that respect.

I am a Trust member and like the majority want the best for NTFC. If that is through The Trust or by utilising other methods then so be it. Banging on what is currently a closed/locked door doesn't deploy resources to the best effect.  That door needs to be opened or at least unlocked. The current methods deployed by The Trust do not appear to be achieving that minimum.

This is constructive criticism, not nit picking, just so that you do not confuse the two again.

Great post Deepcut and saved me a whole lof of typing as my position matches yours.  The sad part when I read your post was that I knew it was wasted effort towards the target audience.

Random.  If your persona on here is that of your real life one then you represent everything that is both right and wrong with the current supporters trust board, the "special advisors" and the ones who are being co-opted on to it.  Till you and others take time to understand that the Trust will never get better and become what most supporters including myself really want it to be.
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« Reply #29278 on: October 05, 2021, 16:38:59 pm »

Thanks CJ for your support, it is appreciated.

Totally agree with your recent posts Melly, people are frightened of change I'm afraid, simple as

On just about every level, we have failed as a club, we have failed to even look at any options or opportunities.

This £3m basic East stand, where the likes of BOTH, MCHammer, Deepcut, Hammy, Singcobb have been jumping up and down in their support of such mediocrity, typifies everything about why we are 10th in L2 and the lowest scorers (again)

They would rather shoot the messenger than face the reality that with every passing month, their support of the owners becomes more and more st............. (fill in your own answer, I don't want to rub more salt in their wounds)

It wasn't the Trust that sold the club without telling anyone for £6.68m from a suspicious Chinese source (and they are still not telling anyone)

The only way they can make themselves feel better is to attack myself and other Trust members with some with insane notion that we don't represent the fans.

Most fans want higher league football - so does the Trust

Most fans want an owner that put their club 1st - so does the Trust

Most fans want a better match day experience - so does the Trust

Most fans want the football to be an exciting, day out escape - so does the Trust

Most fans want their football club to be honest and sustainable - so does the Trust

Most fans want Sixfields to be vastly improved as a venue - so does the Trust

Please show me where I have been "jumping up and down in support",

As for your other comments.

The club belongs to DB like it or not and if he decides to sell his shares or part thereof it's his business and he doesn't have to tell anyone except Companies House.

The "insane notion" that the Trust don't represent the fans is not a notion it is a fact. Just because two or more parties want the same thing it does not imply that one party represents the feelings of the others, this is obvious in the debate over fan ownership.
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« Reply #29279 on: October 05, 2021, 16:46:06 pm »

I've been having a parallel PM conversation with Random and it's interesting that there's something of a common theme in what I was saying and what the last few posts have said... all parties might not fully agree but if we can park our grievances and all pull in the same direction we might actually get somewhere. It might not be the place we would ideally like to be, but it moves us away from the current impasse.

While we're all pulling in separate directions, nothing moves anywhere.
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