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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1200567 times)
GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #29400 on: October 06, 2021, 16:44:49 pm »

We don't look like a club living beyond our means..

Too true!!
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Shoemaker
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« Reply #29401 on: October 06, 2021, 16:50:54 pm »

Hi Shoemaker,

The Trust didn't vacate a board seat, it was part of the new owners' stipulations that supporters should not be involved.  They were prepared to walk away from the takeover if the council insisted on fan representation.  There is no "historic position" to "give up" - it was removed by DB and KT during takeover negotiations.

Now from that anti-supporter position (you perhaps don't like research, but I suggest you look into their relationship with Oxford supporters when they owned that club) we have seen an extremely sudden and massive turnaround.  The initiative happened very suddenly, was very vaguely described on the Cobblers Show and in the in-house video put out by the club, and KT couldn't provide any detail about what the role might encompass.  For someone who said they'd been thinking about it for a while, there weren't many thoughts!

What do you think has led to this simply indescribable reversal in attitude from the owners?  It couldn't possibly have been the Trust, could it?

The Trust made it clear very early on through a statement that whilst it considered this a welcome move it would not put forward an official candidate for the role because Kelvin Thomas had said the fan representative should be independent.  Andy and Derek from the board were on the Cobblers Show last week explaining this too.  So yes, the Trust has communicated this - several times - to everyone, not just members.

Regardless of my cynicism, I do think this is potentially a step in the right direction.  KT has previously stated that board meetings don't happen at the Cobblers because everything is done over the phone.  With JW and a fan rep there they will presumably have to hold meetings, which may well be a good thing.  So perhaps something right will happen even though in my opinion it has been done for the wrong reasons.

The supporter rep will have a tough job.  The trust has over 700 members, a website, a dedicated email address, 12+ dedicated volunteers who all know a lot of other supporters, go to pretty much every match, sit in the stands and talk to people, a constitution, a clear mission, a 30 year history which involves being the first of its kind and close involvement in saving NTFC - twice!  And it still attracts a load of criticism from people saying it's not representative etc.  It may be a lonely job at times if the supporter rep expresses any kind of opinion, ever!

There is and always will be a really important place for the Trust, regardless of people who choose to forget (or perhaps never to know) their history - and that place is not in this role on the NTFC board at this time.


I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that
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Shoemaker
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« Reply #29402 on: October 06, 2021, 16:53:10 pm »

That should have read Cardoza
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« Reply #29403 on: October 06, 2021, 16:59:00 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra £20 per month = £40k per month = £480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc



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« Reply #29404 on: October 06, 2021, 17:03:37 pm »

I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.



Well with the benefit of hindsight, all the board wish they had stood their ground and KT/DB did not take over.
However KT came in making a big play that they had £4m ringfenced to invest in club

How would that have played out if the Trust said, no we scuppered the deal cos they wouldn't let us in the boardroom?

Come on Shoey, stop take the mick, you are confusing people
Now deny that
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 20:37:11 pm by Deepcut Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
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« Reply #29405 on: October 06, 2021, 17:18:07 pm »

AND WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? YES THE CLUB HAS INCOME, BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH SO WHERE WOULD THE TRUST GET SEVEN MILLION FROM? OH I FORGOT THE LONG QUEUE OF LOCAL BUSINESS MEN WHO ARE WILLING TO SPUNK AWAY A SHÍTLOAD OF MONEY.
Because a business loses £1M per year doesn't mean it always has to lose £1M per year. Just a thought, would the owners try to run a "tighter ship" if they didn't have the back up of the land value ? There seems to be no consequence to losing money if know you will get it back from the land deal.
          NTFC can be run on a break even, it did under DC a couple of times, and we had players on more money than they are on now. We get much better gates than over half the other League 2 clubs but they survive on much less income than us, so what's wrong with NTFC ?
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« Reply #29406 on: October 06, 2021, 17:22:49 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

There's an element of luck in appointing managers and KT & DB have undoubtedly been unlucky. All I'll say is I was pleased with 4 of the appointments at the time they were made, the exception being Curle who is the orly one to get us promoted! I also agreed with all the sackings when they were made. Didn't you?

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.
Now you are just making stuff up that we might be able to get cross about. This sort of thing does you no favours in winning people over.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra £20 per month = £40k per month = £480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc

I for one wouldn't do this. I don't think many others would either.



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« Reply #29407 on: October 06, 2021, 17:29:44 pm »

I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that

Not being bothered to read more than a couple of lines explains all of the errors in the post I replied to.

Yes, you are technically correct.  Happy now?

I had assumed you were interested in the health of the football club, not point scoring over a situation in which the club may have ceased to exist.  A situation which was in part facilitated by people making excuses a terrible chairman and rubbishing the Trust and others who were raising concerns. 

I'll stop now, it's probably past your attention span already.
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« Reply #29408 on: October 06, 2021, 17:59:16 pm »



Think about this for a minute or two please.

4 managers that you wanted as manager ALL failed and you wanted them sacked. What does that tell you?  Is it them that failed or something wrong at NTFC?

So called decent appointments on paper, all fail here, quote quickly to such an extend that you want them gone, no time, no medium term plan.

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« Reply #29409 on: October 06, 2021, 18:03:25 pm »

Re: Fees from overseas

No I am not making it up, I would expect to see something, don't tell me the owners / KT are not taking money out on a regular basis.

I know KT received over £1m for his sale of shares to the Chinese but who is paying his flights etc

KT says he doesn't take a salary but there are many ways to skin a cat

Do you know how much the Cardozas charged 1st Land for consultant / finder fees on the East stand development? 


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« Reply #29410 on: October 06, 2021, 18:07:41 pm »

So BOTN, you would not pay a little extra to support your football club?

How about buying more merchandise or more drink, food etc at the ground?

£20 per month? really? How about £10 then?

What is I said that money went directly to training facilities or a massive modern supporters lounge or safe standing or increased capacity for the away to generate more money for the club?

Would you think about it then?
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BackOfTheNet
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« Reply #29411 on: October 06, 2021, 18:25:11 pm »

So BOTN, you would not pay a little extra to support your football club?

How about buying more merchandise or more drink, food etc at the ground?

£20 per month? really? How about £10 then?

What is I said that money went directly to training facilities or a massive modern supporters lounge or safe standing or increased capacity for the away to generate more money for the club?

Would you think about it then?

No. I wouldn't. The club aren't a charity and shouldn't be treated as such. Propping them up does no favours and they need to be able to stand on their own two feet.

Leaner, meaner, more efficient - yes
Propped up or bailed out - no
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« Reply #29412 on: October 06, 2021, 19:05:57 pm »


You have completelymissed the point. My opinion that the trust could not run the club, could not have financed the club through covid times and financed changing managers and getting in players is the crux of my repsonse. As far as I am concerned the trust even though they want some of the same things I do should never be let anywhere near the ownership of the club. For me it is like green political parties, great ideas not a fúcking clue on how to manage them fiscally.

This is complete nonsense. Bowers doesn't run the club and I am sure he would agree he knows nothing about football. He has staff that do that just as other owners would have. As for the second part about the Greens, there are green political parties in government around Europe and in the UK the whole point of the civil service is to run the country, political 'owners' come and go.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #29413 on: October 06, 2021, 20:03:49 pm »

Re: Fees from overseas

No I am not making it up, I would expect to see something, don't tell me the owners / KT are not taking money out on a regular basis.

I know KT received over £1m for his sale of shares to the Chinese but who is paying his flights etc

KT says he doesn't take a salary but there are many ways to skin a cat

Do you know how much the Cardozas charged 1st Land for consultant / finder fees on the East stand development? 





I can't remember the exact breakdown, but I am sure Grossman's personal expenses accounted for more than £300,000. Mind you, I think the Jewish Burial company scappered with close to a quarter million: I still can't see how they explained that one away. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29414 on: October 06, 2021, 20:31:37 pm »

I can't remember the exact breakdown, but I am sure Grossman's personal expenses accounted for more than £300,000. Mind you, I think the Jewish Burial company scappered with close to a quarter million: I still can't see how they explained that one away. Roll Eyes


The fee paid to DC & his father was paid to them after the first payment from NBC. Therefore it was already agreed and i expect before DC realised how they had been played

£2m
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« Reply #29415 on: October 06, 2021, 21:55:00 pm »

In the latest accounts filed the club recorded a loss of £570,370 compared to the previous year of £1,677,262. Charlie Goode was sold for circa £1 million during that period if I am not mistaken. From where I’m sitting to make the business viable on that basis you need to to either shave £1.6 million per year to break even, address any short fall in player sales, increase gate receipts or a combination of all 3. That would be a considerable challenge. Especially since a number of the support base consider the current spending to be inadequate, arguably massively so.
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« Reply #29416 on: October 06, 2021, 22:17:48 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx £6m per year from sources outside of the owners?


How are we getting (and spending more than) £6m per year?
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All he had to do was build a stand.
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« Reply #29417 on: October 06, 2021, 22:38:54 pm »

In the latest accounts filed the club recorded a loss of £570,370 compared to the previous year of £1,677,262. Charlie Goode was sold for circa £1 million during that period if I am not mistaken. From where I’m sitting to make the business viable on that basis you need to to either shave £1.6 million per year to break even, address any short fall in player sales, increase gate receipts or a combination of all 3. That would be a considerable challenge. Especially since a number of the support base consider the current spending to be inadequate, arguably massively so.

The Charlie Goode sale was not included in that year...... Accounts to year end 30th June 2020....Goode was sold on 19th August 2020. That money will appear in the 2021 accounts. Also set to appear in the 2021 accounts will be the PL grant to EFL clubs (375k minimum plus lost gate revenue share)

What did appear in those accounts for 2020 though was the money (gate and prize and TV revenue) banked from the FA Cup run, which I assume is the sum shown as "other operating income" on page 9, the sum of £483,845 which reduced the operating loss from just under £1.1m to the £570k figure you have already mentioned.

Also shown on page 13 are the player registration costs and income, which I take to be purchases of £114k (the Goode PURCHASE) and sales of £105k (Pierre and Morais), those being the undisclosed transfer dealings in that accounting period.
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« Reply #29418 on: October 06, 2021, 23:13:45 pm »

The bollox meter is on full tilt tonight. All these people that can read… Wow. Yet not a solution in sight. I wish I was that clever..
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« Reply #29419 on: October 06, 2021, 23:32:06 pm »

The bollox meter is on full tilt tonight. All these people that can read… Wow. Yet not a solution in sight. I wish I was that clever..
I think the bollox meter is broken, this thread is going round and round and round……………..it bit like …..
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