Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[Carton Lid]

That is the issue, if you are considered not to 'support' The Trust, it is automatically assumed (by some) that you support the Chairman.
It isn't as simple as that.

In my opinion, The Trust Board needed to promote an early 'hearts and minds' campaign in order to convince the majority of the fan base to be behind them in the pursuit of their (and our) ultimate aims.  Many of the fanbase are not frequent contributors or users of either this board, FB, Twitter or even the Internet.

Despite numerous attempts to provide genuine and sincere advice and guidance, they didn't,
Primarily because of the words and actions of a vociferous few, they are now at a stage where they look round and can count their 'support', in this particular campaign, on the fingers of only a few hands.

It's a shame because I know and speak to quite a number of supporters who agreed with their intentions (myself included).
From my perspective, the methods deployed to achieve them were at fault. They could and should have done better.

Winning the battles win the war. Unfortunately, in my opinion, no battles were won and all that The Trust achieved is to provide additional bumps in the road and white noise to delay what has already been beyond a timeline that any of us ever expected back in the days of David Cardoza, when the East Stand redevelopment was first proposed.
The current Chairman isn't blameless for the delay either, but with a properly coordinated Trust campaign, he wouldn't be in as comfortable position as he is now, sat holding all of the key cards.

Reteats to bunker with tin hat...

I agree with some of your post Rim, but, and it's a big but, the only delay that could in anyway be put on the Trust is the ACV, so who is to blame for the other six and a half years ? Before you say NBC/WNC, Jonathan Nunn, Chair of both councils said in 2018 that there was no reason the Stand couldn't be finished as the lease problems had been sorted.

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

A lot of people want to turn up, have a beer or 10, watch a game and see friends in a lovely stadium befitting a team that's been in the league for over 100 years, but actually has the smallest capacity of any established league team.

so because you xan't use "any league team" you have to use "any established league team"
what is your criteria for established? because, for instance, burton have been in the league for over a decade now, have spent most of that time above us and do things like get promoted to the championship

[random1]

Hi everyone, hope you are well, enjoying summer and the start of the new season.

I am the first to admit that the Trust should spoken more to fans on a fan to fan basis rather than statements and arguments.

The Trust board have spoken with many groups / Trusts and individuals over the recents years and a similar story is often told.

Most Trusts (as we believe we are) look closer at the medium term and the actions of owners and how they run our football clubs.

As said above most fans, are only interested in on the pitch matters, totally ignoring the fact that infrastructure and off-the-pitch affects it far more than they care to believe.

Therefore, any Trust asking questions (and not getting answers) from owners raises their level of concern, whilst coming under attack from their own fans. This has happened at many clubs.

You only have to look here under DC and the abuse those who were saying "we want answers" received

I in the past have made passionate, personal statements, I have asked for fans to explain why we are better off now than before KT arrived, rarely do I get a comment or reply.

I and the Trust have asked for help, for more to join, more to influence etc, nothing comes back except excuses of why they can't get involved, whilst sniping messages and discussions are posted about the constitution of the Trust, it board, who is co-opted etc etc

The Trust are all supporters, they want more for it's supporters, they want owners who want to be honest, with a little ambition and most of all, belief in our town and it's supporters

We don't have that with these owners, KT has stated it is not financially viable to develop the club, whilst somehow putting us in £6m in debt with no increase in assets.

This is your football club, it is about to be shafted by it's owners and even more unbelievably by it's local council - well at least its leaders, Nunn and Patel and one other at least

And all many of you can focus on is how aggressive the Trust has become. The same Trust who last time got vilified for being passive and allow DC a free pass.

[BackOfTheNet]

Jonathan Nunn, Chair of both councils said in 2018 that there was no reason the Stand couldn't be finished as the lease problems had been sorted.

The thing is Rog, I think when the council said the lease issues had been solved they purely meant that the land could have the stand finished on it and it's taken this long to reach a similar agreement on the enabling development.

So what, you might say, but (and there have been numerous riffs made on this analogy over the years, none of them entirely accurate) in very broad terms if you were planning on making a living by buying a house and turning it into a shop, would you pay to have the conversion done before you'd completed on the sale of the house? I know I wouldn't.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Hi everyone, hope you are well, enjoying summer and the start of the new season.

I am the first to admit that the Trust should spoken more to fans on a fan to fan basis rather than statements and arguments.

The Trust board have spoken with many groups / Trusts and individuals over the recents years and a similar story is often told.

Most Trusts (as we believe we are) look closer at the medium term and the actions of owners and how they run our football clubs.

As said above most fans, are only interested in on the pitch matters, totally ignoring the fact that infrastructure and off-the-pitch affects it far more than they care to believe.

Therefore, any Trust asking questions (and not getting answers) from owners raises their level of concern, whilst coming under attack from their own fans. This has happened at many clubs.

You only have to look here under DC and the abuse those who were saying "we want answers" received

I in the past have made passionate, personal statements, I have asked for fans to explain why we are better off now than before KT arrived, rarely do I get a comment or reply.

I and the Trust have asked for help, for more to join, more to influence etc, nothing comes back except excuses of why they can't get involved, whilst sniping messages and discussions are posted about the constitution of the Trust, it board, who is co-opted etc etc

The Trust are all supporters, they want more for it's supporters, they want owners who want to be honest, with a little ambition and most of all, belief in our town and it's supporters

We don't have that with these owners, KT has stated it is not financially viable to develop the club, whilst somehow putting us in £6m in debt with no increase in assets.

This is your football club, it is about to be shafted by it's owners and even more unbelievably by it's local council - well at least its leaders, Nunn and Patel and one other at least

And all many of you can focus on is how aggressive the Trust has become. The same Trust who last time got vilified for being passive and allow DC and free pass.

There goes the neighbourhood.

Are the Trust and their “special” advisors paid by the paragraph. They absolutely love them..  

[Shoemender]

so because you xan't use "any league team" you have to use "any established league team"
what is your criteria for established? because, for instance, burton have been in the league for over a decade now, have spent most of that time above us and do things like get promoted to the championship

Well. Established is pretty obvious. Well done to teams like Burton and er Yeovil and Hereford for that matter for getting to the equivalent of the Championship, both of whom had bigger capacities than what we have now. Why do people have to argue for arguments sake. Wouldn't you like to see us in the Champiohship with a fit for purpose ground? Plenty of teams have been on their knees; Wolves, Middlesborough, Brighton, Bournemouth, Doncaster, Burnley, who almost went out of the league in 87, but thank's to having a "fit for purpose ground" managed to attract a crowd of around 18,000, "don't quote me", in their hour of need.
Over the years there's been plenty of opportunities for us to advance, but due to our s***e council for the majority, no, probably all of that time and the apathy of the potential support or should I say people who prefer the success of other towns/cities than their own, we are where we are.

[random1]

If you follow that BOTN, why did they buy the football club in the 1st place and announce they had £4m ringfenced to build the stand?

They have a 125 year lease, as close to freehold as you need.

The freeholder is the local council, the same freeholder who wrote off £10m debts to enable you to buy the club for £1, on the promise of completing the East stand.

Excuse after excuse, when it looked like they were going to have to go ahead, they then starting blaming covid, supply issues, Brexit, etc.

So in your example below, when would you have fully costed out plans and designs and apply for planning permission etc?

before you brought the house or after?  

  

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

If you follow that BOTN, why did they buy the football club in the 1st place and announce they had £4m ringfenced to build the stand?

They have a 125 year lease, as close to freehold as you need.

The freeholder is the local council, the same freeholder who wrote off £10m debts to enable you to buy the club for £1, on the promise of completing the East stand.

Excuse after excuse, when it looked like they were going to have to go ahead, they then starting blaming covid, supply issues, Brexit, etc.

So in your example below, when would you apply for planning permission, have fully costed out plans and designs etc? before you brought the house or after?  

  

Haven’t we had a fantastic start to the season? The Brady bunch are onwards and upwards at the moment. It was fantastic at Crewe, lovely weather and a last minute goal to boot. In addition to that, the open training sessions appears to be a resounding success as well. I could go on. But you and your pals couldn’t really give a shyte…

[everbrite]

A lot of people want to turn up, have a beer or 10, watch a game and see friends in a lovely stadium befitting a team that's been in the league for over 100 years, but actually has the smallest capacity of any established league team.

Harrogate, Stanley, Crawley , FGR, Salford, Morecombe, Fleetwood, Barrow and Sutton, Maybe be more like Southport ex Dons Meadow Lane

[random1]

This IMHO (mine not that of the Trust) is what is going to play out over the coming months

The council will refuse any and all offers from the Trust for the ACV land - even if we offer £2m for it -

KT will pay £2m+ to the council and it's board

KT will sell the 17 acres to Buckingham Group for more warehousing

Outstanding debts to owners will be paid immediately

DB will sell the club for whatever he can get for it (perhaps even to KT and his Oxford mates)

The new owner will have a choice of finishing the east stand and keeping the 3.61 acres of running track or handing back to the Council in 5 years for £1 and not bothering with the East stand. (bear in mind it is on NTFC to finish the stand NOT CDNL)

Sorry I'm a bit thick but I don't see how this is a good deal for NTFC and it's supporters - NO stand, No Land, No assets. (and great, no debt to it's owners, just like in October 2015)

Would love to hear what other regular posters on here, think will happen.

[random1]

Harrogate, Stanley, Crawley , FGR, Salford, Morecombe, Fleetwood, Barrow and Sutton, Maybe be more like Southport ex Dons Meadow Lane

Sorry Everbrite, but that is why is said established !!!

Harrogate, Salford, and especially Barrow and Sutton are hardly established.

We do have the smallest ground capacity per population

[everbrite]

A lot of people just want to turn up, have a beer or 3, watch a game and see friends without all this stuff getting in the way.

Most go to watch their local team win!

[Shoemender]

Harrogate, Stanley, Crawley , FGR, Salford, Morecombe, Fleetwood, Barrow and Sutton, Maybe be more like Southport ex Dons Meadow Lane

All well established league teams??!! With probably not much more than 100 years between them. Don't know what you were on about in your last sentence.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I agree with some of your post Rim, but, and it's a big but, the only delay that could in anyway be put on the Trust is the ACV, so who is to blame for the other six and a half years ? Before you say NBC/WNC, Jonathan Nunn, Chair of both councils said in 2018 that there was no reason the Stand couldn't be finished as the lease problems had been sorted.

Thank you.
I was responding to your original post and Risdens response regarding who had split the support in order to demonstrate that it wasn't necessarily KT who had divided the support.
I was highlighting that by failing to prepare by massing the support behind them, The Trust Board had prepared to fail in their intent to ensure that the completion of the East Stand was expedited.  Racing off into their various activities 'against' the club/Chairman when it became an issue, without easily understood reasons and plans of action, left the majority of the support in their wake.  The support was never going to catch up and join them.

As I said, the intent is acknowledged and I believe that it would have the support of the majority of the fan base. By not bringing the support with them, The Trust Board hasn't been able to 'enforce' this from a position of strength, which has played into the hands of the Chairman who has used this to good effect to proceed (or not as the case is) at his own pace.
With the backing of the total/majority of the support, a challenge could have been much more effective, maybe having the East Stand resolved earlier than the near seven year wait we have endured so far.

As has been said on here a number of times, a lot of the support would like the East Stand to be completed but aren't that bothered, as long as they can get their beers, attend and watch the games, which at the moment isn't an issue.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Hi everyone, hope you are well, enjoying summer and the start of the new season.

I am the first to admit that the Trust should spoken more to fans on a fan to fan basis rather than statements and arguments.

The Trust board have spoken with many groups / Trusts and individuals over the recents years and a similar story is often told.

Most Trusts (as we believe we are) look closer at the medium term and the actions of owners and how they run our football clubs.

As said above most fans, are only interested in on the pitch matters, totally ignoring the fact that infrastructure and off-the-pitch affects it far more than they care to believe.

Therefore, any Trust asking questions (and not getting answers) from owners raises their level of concern, whilst coming under attack from their own fans. This has happened at many clubs.

You only have to look here under DC and the abuse those who were saying "we want answers" received

I in the past have made passionate, personal statements, I have asked for fans to explain why we are better off now than before KT arrived, rarely do I get a comment or reply.

I and the Trust have asked for help, for more to join, more to influence etc, nothing comes back except excuses of why they can't get involved, whilst sniping messages and discussions are posted about the constitution of the Trust, it board, who is co-opted etc etc

The Trust are all supporters, they want more for it's supporters, they want owners who want to be honest, with a little ambition and most of all, belief in our town and it's supporters

We don't have that with these owners, KT has stated it is not financially viable to develop the club, whilst somehow putting us in £6m in debt with no increase in assets.

This is your football club, it is about to be shafted by it's owners and even more unbelievably by it's local council - well at least its leaders, Nunn and Patel and one other at least

And all many of you can focus on is how aggressive the Trust has become. The same Trust who last time got vilified for being passive and allow DC a free pass.

And therein is a perfect example of the problem.

[everbrite]

Sorry Everbrite, but that is why is said established !!!

Harrogate, Salford, and especially Barrow and Sutton are hardly established.

We do have the smallest ground capacity per population

I did wonder at your get out of jail card, you did not define 'established' for a start! Barrow have previously been a league club for years,  if only just got back in. Any club which survives for 2 seasons in the efl is by definition 'established' Those four you have indicated are all capable of holding their own in EFL 2.
If you are going to present an argument in any debate you should examine the facts prior to publishing. By failing to define 'established', you invite counter arguments. Already you are on the way in losing credibility.

[everbrite]

This IMHO (mine not that of the Trust) is what is going to play out over the coming months

The council will refuse any and all offers from the Trust for the ACV land - even if we offer £2m for it -

KT will pay £2.05m + bonuses to the council and it's board

KT will sell the 17 acres to Buckingham Group for more warehousing

Outstanding debts to owners will be paid immediately

DB will sell the club for whatever he can get for it (perhaps even to KT and his Oxford mates)

The new owner will have a choice of finishing the east stand and keeping the 3.61 acres of running track or handing back to the Council in 5 years for £1 and not bothering with the East stand. (bear in mind it is on NTFC to finish the stand NOT CDNL)

Sorry I'm a bit thick but I don't see how this is a good deal for NTFC and it's supporters - NO stand, No Land, No assets. (and great, no debt to it's owners, just like in October 2015)

Would love to hear what other regular posters on here, think will happen.

What does this mean? + bonuses to the council and it's board

[BackOfTheNet]

What does this mean? + bonuses to the council and it's board

I think it means he likes living dangerously!

[Shoemender]

And therein is a perfect example of the problem.

Hi everyone, hope you are well, enjoying summer and the start of the new season.

I am the first to admit that the Trust should spoken more to fans on a fan to fan basis rather than statements and arguments.

The Trust board have spoken with many groups / Trusts and individuals over the recents years and a similar story is often told.

Most Trusts (as we believe we are) look closer at the medium term and the actions of owners and how they run our football clubs.

As said above most fans, are only interested in on the pitch matters, totally ignoring the fact that infrastructure and off-the-pitch affects it far more than they care to believe.

Therefore, any Trust asking questions (and not getting answers) from owners raises their level of concern, whilst coming under attack from their own fans. This has happened at many clubs.

You only have to look here under DC and the abuse those who were saying "we want answers" received

I in the past have made passionate, personal statements, I have asked for fans to explain why we are better off now than before KT arrived, rarely do I get a comment or reply.

I and the Trust have asked for help, for more to join, more to influence etc, nothing comes back except excuses of why they can't get involved, whilst sniping messages and discussions are posted about the constitution of the Trust, it board, who is co-opted etc etc

The Trust are all supporters, they want more for it's supporters, they want owners who want to be honest, with a little ambition and most of all, belief in our town and it's supporters

We don't have that with these owners, KT has stated it is not financially viable to develop the club, whilst somehow putting us in £6m in debt with no increase in assets.

This is your football club, it is about to be shafted by it's owners and even more unbelievably by it's local council - well at least its leaders, Nunn and Patel and one other at least

And all many of you can focus on is how aggressive the Trust has become. The same Trust who last time got vilified for being passive and allow DC a free pass.

Thought that was a reasonably fair post. Can't really see the "problem".

[Jonesy9]

Why don’t the trust put that 2m offer from the land, and use it as a grounding for building the funds to offer to buy out the club.
The trust clearly believe that they know how the club should be run, and that the current owners are doing a terrible job. So surely we would benefit from all of the business experts on the board of the trust taking ownership and control over the club?

I’d say that if the trust have the level of support amongst the members that is being alluded to, surely a whip round will drum up enough cash to put a tempting offer on the table?