Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[Melbourne Cobbler]

sorry Dale I missed what your plan / ideas were

If it was met with KT, forget it. At the moment he thinks he has won, he thinks he is getting everything he wants.

Sorry if I am disappointment to you, but the Trust is made up of fans with different view points etc, that is the whole point.

We are all united by our concern of our football club under these owners and quite frankly I believe that all Trust board members are baffled as to why there are not more supporters raising the same concerns - or at least asking questions

The concerns have been raised and every conceivable question asked from every angle more times than you can count. You are not stopping this deal, worry about what you can control and influence and forget about what you can’t. You might be able to say “I told you so” at the end but that’s not the objective that matters is it?

[random1]

Focusssing on this point as the rest is just ramblings we've been over a million times before.

Surely you and others understand that the original clause that ensured the completion of the East Stand had to be changed as the security it was based upon no longer existed.

As you well know the original deal was a 5 year option to purchase the development land at an agreed price should the East Stand be satisfactorly completed.  In simple terms "No Stand, No Land".  Once Cilldara entered the bidding process CDNL had no choice but to change to a straight purchase of the development land else the deal would have been considered far less favourable than the Cilldara one.

So if we accept that the deal HAD to change and the development land could no longer be held in the background as "security" to ensure the completion of the stand the question is how can the deal be structured in a way that's commerically competitive but ensures the stand still gets completed.

Where I agree with the Trust is that I don't understand how the current "security" of having to hand back the running track land ensures this happens.  What I completely agree with the Trust doing is pressing the club and the council to include meaningful clauses in the legal contracts that ensure the stand gets completed.

I think that is best achieved through professional dialogue with both parties not publicly calling the council leaders and our owners corrupt.

Contrary to the way it's currently being presented the letter from Jonathan Nunn clearly states there will be clauses in the legal contracts and the club has publicly stated it is their intention to complete the stand.  So the challenge really is ensuring these clauses are meaningful and hold a suitable penalty if they are not met.  
      

I didn't say they were corrupt, I questioned why the council are so desperate to do a deal with CDNL - The fact that there is a Judicial review may suggest something is a miss.

I do get your point, the problem is that both the owners and the council seem intent to push this deal through.

The Trust partnered with a very well respected non-profit company to produce (on their figures) £250k per year to go into an Infrastructure Foundation. Pressure was put on GWS by both the Council and the football club not to progress this deal with the Trust

As I said, the council have come up with illogical reasons why not to even try to do a deal with the Trust for the ACV land. 3.61 acres which would leave 17 acres to sell and develop, and leave the footprint of the stadium with the club and supporters. should be a no brainer?

Sorry MC but the club have been stating their intention to complete the East stand for 7 years

The Council have failed numerous times in it's dealing with the football club and its leases.

The no stand no land change was not announced by either the club or council, it was all hush hush.

The undervaluing of the land was ignored and only when Cildara made their offer did things really start to change.

 

[random1]

The concerns have been raised and every conceivable question asked from every angle more times than you can count. You are not stopping this deal, worry about what you can control and influence and forget about what you can’t. You might be able to say “I told you so” at the end but that’s not the objective that matters is it?

well if we cannot stop this deal then the Trust is dead until such time the s*** hits the fan i expect

[MCHammer]

The figures come from experienced professionals in the relevant fields. The £1.2m is on the low side at the moment due to the demand in this area.

No the owners will sell it I expect straight to Buckingham who have the capabilities in-house to deal with most of the work. You only have to drive around Rugby and Coventry to see the many warehouses that have a Buckingham sign either on or next to them.

Also don't forget you are including the £6m club debt as if that is a cost. its not, its a profit really in a way. How many football club owners get their money back? especially when they have not increase the league standing and / or assets of the club that much.

I expect that the owners will profit just enough to get the bulk of any club debt back, will sell to someone and off they go.

Lets face it, they are hardly doing anything to suggest they are building for the future and are going to stay.

On the pitch we are doing ok, i know i am cynical but KT needs to keep fans on side, which the Hylton and Guthrie signings have done - its early days

So in summary you are saying the owners carried out a land grab that sees them basically get back what they spent or maybe a little extra if they are lucky.

Buckinghams are in cahoots with them so much so that they are willing to buy land from them at £11/12m that has previously been valued at £800k and purchased days before for only £2m.  This is land that will then cost them circa £8m to remediate and place warehouses on that they can sell for circa £20m.

Why would Buckinghams need the owners?  Especially as they were the main creditor of CDNL when it was in administration.  Why wouldn't they just take ownership of CDNL, the leases and buy the land themselves?

[random1]

On another side note Random and to enable you to talk positively about something for a change how are the ACV and Infrastructure Foundation plans coming along?

Have the Trust actually put in a bid for the land and what kind of projects are being planned?

How much do the Trust value that land at?

Cant talk positively about the ACV or IF as our main plan was railroaded by KT and the council

Our partners were basically warned off by people of Northampton to help those that live in Florida and Dubai- you couldnt make it up

The council are saying we need to bid closer to £2m to take the ACV land as to compensate them in case the other 17 acres don't sell  - again you couldnt make it up

The Trust were willing to offer a fair and going rate for the ACV land.

We have not given up yet though, we fully intent to put as much pressure on KT and the Council leaders as possible.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

well if we cannot stop this deal then the Trust is dead until such time the **** hits the fan i expect

Not necessarily, what’s called for is a pragmatic approach. You’ll achieve nothing on the outside, if your strategy hasn’t worked change it for something that might, but take the emotion out of it Derek.

[random1]

So in summary you are saying the owners carried out a land grab that sees them basically get back what they spent or maybe a little extra if they are lucky.

Buckinghams are in cahoots with them so much so that they are willing to buy land from them at £11/12m that has previously been valued at £800k and purchased days before for only £2m.  This is land that will then cost them circa £8m to remediate and place warehouses on that they can sell for circa £20m.

Why would Buckinghams need the owners?  Especially as they were the main creditor of CDNL when it was in administration.  Why wouldn't they just take ownership of CDNL, the leases and buy the land themselves?

Your last one is a good question, perhaps they dropped a big bollock there, i don't know.

The land is only worth £20m once the council rubberstamp the planning permission but yeah, I expect Buckingham will pay about £6m for the land, I also expect the remidation cost to themselves will be less than half the £8m. No the warehouses will be worth more than £20m, £20m is the land cost.

Again re the owners what options do they have, they certainly ain't getting much profit / return from just the football club and £6m is £6m (again don't forget they already have received £6.68m for the club once)

If you think i am wrong then do tell me what you think will happen

BTW the buy the land back for £1 is then just an option for NTFC isn't it?  complete the stand and keep the ACV or don't bother and get £1 or I expect do a deal with the council to buy that clause out. who knows but DB will not be funding the completion of the East stand.

[random1]

Not necessarily, what’s called for is a pragmatic approach. You’ll achieve nothing on the outside, if your strategy hasn’t worked change it for something that might, but take the emotion out of it Derek.

I agree but we have tried to knock on the door, ring the door bell, tried pretending to be an Amazon delivery driver, shouted through the letterbox, and be the big bad wolf trying to blow the house down. NOTHING has worked

we have very little we can do.

Remember we are dealing with someone (and staff) where for the first time in history the match sponsor was note mentioned or named in the programme, not announced over the tannoy or awarded the player of the match award. - Nothing

The sponsor was The Trust - the game was versus Exeter in 2019 - long before I was involved with the Trust

Around that time, or a little later I believe, there was a big photo op for the Ladies football team - which the Trust donated kit sponsorship and travel funding - anyone showing the Trust logo amazingly happened to be holding or were behind a very well placed clipboard.

[MCHammer]

I didn't say they were corrupt, I questioned why the council are so desperate to do a deal with CDNL - The fact that there is a Judicial review may suggest something is a miss.

I do get your point, the problem is that both the owners and the council seem intent to push this deal through.

The Trust partnered with a very well respected non-profit company to produce (on their figures) £250k per year to go into an Infrastructure Foundation. Pressure was put on GWS by both the Council and the football club not to progress this deal with the Trust

As I said, the council have come up with illogical reasons why not to even try to do a deal with the Trust for the ACV land. 3.61 acres which would leave 17 acres to sell and develop, and leave the footprint of the stadium with the club and supporters. should be a no brainer?

I've removed the ramblings again and quoted the points I'm answering.

You absoloutely stated earlier that the owners would be making payments to the council and the board.  Suggesting clear corruption by those making and receiving the payments.  You've also on many occasions said the deal is underhand and implied only certain people are involved for that purpose.

If I was part of an organisation such as the Trust that was trying to work closely with these organisations I would be choosing what I say publicly on the matter far more carefully than you and some of your colleagues are currently doing.

The council didn't give you illogical reasons.  They made perfect sense to most people.  In fact most poeple stated back in April that the main barrier for success for the Trust was that they would have to agree a working relationship with the leaseholders.  

What pressure exactly was put on GWS by KT and the council.  The council stated clearly and apparently GWS confirmed nobody from the council spoke with them.  If you know different feel free to share that information.

  

[random1]

I've removed the ramblings again and quoted the points I'm answering.

You absoloutely stated earlier that the owners would be making payments to the council and the board.  Suggesting clear corruption by those making and receiving the payments.  You've also on many occasions said the deal is underhand and implied only certain people are involved for that purpose.

If I was part of an organisation such as the Trust that was trying to work closely with these organisations I would be choosing what I say publicly on the matter far more carefully than you and some of your colleagues are currently doing.

The council didn't give you illogical reasons.  They made perfect sense to most people.  In fact most poeple stated back in April that the main barrier for success for the Trust was that they would have to agree a working relationship with the leaseholders.  

What pressure exactly was put on GWS by KT and the council.  The council stated clearly and apparently GWS confirmed nobody from the council spoke with them.  If you know different feel free to share that information.

  

Only a few people on the council are involved in this deal, that is a fact, it is voted by cabinet which is 9 people. I assume that the Deputy Leader is on that cabinet and he has stated to me that he is not involved in this process, he said that Cllr Nunn is controlling it, as his right to do so as leader of the council.


Like many things in Politics you can give an argument, it doesnt have to be right or even make sense or even have any evidence behind to be accepted.

Do you think it is right that the Trust should have to bid more for the ACV than outsider investors ? and the reason is because we might not be able to sell the land, even though they already had an unconditional higher offer?  you think that is logicial? really?

 as local supporters we should have expected at the least more support from the people of Northampton

Yes the Trust would need to agree a relationship with the Leaseholders, but at the very least being the freeholder would make that relationship more feasible - not just instantly dismissed

At the end of the day the Trust holding the freehold land is a better solution than any owner of the football club, even if remained untouched because once its gone, its gone

I do know differently but Im not sharing it on here Im afraid, sorry.

[Risdene]

Looking forward, am I right in saying the ACV's 6 months runs out in 2 weeks?
How long do Cildara have to launch a Judicial review?

If no other hurdles, can KT/DB inform all NTFC fans their plans and timescale on September 8th?

[1971cobbler]

The ability for Melbourne to post at stupid o'clock is obvious. Do you other chaps work night shifts?  

[Melbourne Cobbler]

The ability for Melbourne to post at stupid o'clock is obvious. Do you other chaps work night shifts?  

Not only that Derek was kind enough to phone me and we had a lovely chat. I think he’s nocturnal? And it was via FaceTime and he looked better than I did.

[Jonesy9]

The clubs worth the £1 they paid for it.

Even better. The trust offers to buy the club for £1 and then the trust can put the other £1.99m towards investing in the club. Everyone’s a winner

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

well if we cannot stop this deal then the Trust is dead until such time the **** hits the fan i expect

I wouldn’t bank on it coming alive then. I think that ships sailed.

[random1]

Even better. The trust offers to buy the club for £1 and then the trust can put the other £1.99m towards investing in the club. Everyone’s a winner

DEAL 

Are you available to broker the deal with KT / DB, as all who have tried before have failed

The Trust go a deal that would have secured roughly £250k into the club which I the back of that could have been used to bring other investors out of the woodwork

[random1]

I wouldn’t bank on it coming alive then. I think that ships sailed.

You would like to think that but who else is going to do it?  You?  BOTN?

[random1]

still waiting for why I and the Trust should be sitting back and waving through this land deal from the usual crew

Also waiting for them to put their names to saying that KT will finish the stand and they believe in him and his crew

[singcobb]

DEAL 

Are you available to broker the deal with KT / DB, as all who have tried before have failed

The Trust go a deal that would have secured roughly £250k into the club which I the back of that could have been used to bring other investors out of the woodwork

Have you considered that in this day and age nobody would be interested in investing in a fourth tier club with shít infrastructure and if that happened the club would fold?

[Manwork04]

Have you considered that in this day and age nobody would be interested in investing in a fourth tier club with shít infrastructure and if that happened the club would fold?

There has been at least 4 offers to KT and Bower not mentioning the fabled Chinese bluebird deal.
So the answer is yes there are still a few interested parties out there.