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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1819818 times)
Zen Master, sloane square cobbler (+ 1 Hidden) and 31 Guests are viewing this topic.
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #35600 on: September 28, 2022, 11:47:59 am »

Here's a potential downside, using the Trust's own arguments against KT (not based on a belief it would happen).

Buy the land for £3m, flip it for £20m and the Trust Board members each walk away with a tidy sum.

What's to stop that happening? If you believe KT might do it, you have to believe it is a possibility with the Trust.

What is to stop it?



Land prices dropping like a stone might be the problem.

In principle I agree entirely with the Trusts right to pursue something that is in the interest of the club. But before everyone jumps on that bandwagon, let’s wait and see who is funding it. And what’s their interest in NTFC.

But as I say. You have to respect their right to compete on a level playing field. I’m not so sure about the councils ability to scrutinise anything though. I wouldn’t wanted to be on either side relying on them to come to a satisfactory conclusion…
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« Reply #35601 on: September 28, 2022, 11:48:43 am »

I promise you 100% everything I say is true to the best of my knowledge and is sourced from elsewhere.  I haven't made a single thing up.  Any hypothesis is based 100% around what the Trust expect of our current owners.
That unfortunately is the truth of it.
It's a hypothesis that you hold and no more. An opinion based on the available evidence.
Actually you are also hypothesizing about what the Trust currently expects, so it's a hypothesis based on a hypothesis.
I will now find time to listen to that podcast and see if I come to the same conclusions as you and others.
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« Reply #35602 on: September 28, 2022, 11:52:30 am »

I made the context for that point in the rest of the first paragraph that you didn't quote.

The Trust is what it's members want it to be.  I can only assume THIS current version is what the members want either thriugh disinterest or silent approval.

If this is what you want them to be...congratulations.  If it's not how have you and others used your rights to change it?
But you would shout anyone down who suggested you also do that...join the Trust to change the current Trust plan?
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« Reply #35603 on: September 28, 2022, 11:57:46 am »

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/2022/september/open_forum_report/

He also explained that one of the complications for the club with the existing leases is a remediation clause meaning remediation on the wider land has to be in place by 2024. Therefore, to protect the club and simplify matters, he further explained that the club had instructed local planning consultant firm CC Town Planning alongside national planning consultants and environmental impact experts Lichfields to advise on all aspects of planning, but especially the remediation strategy and work that is essential to protect the land as a club asset. The club fully expects remediation will be dealt with satisfactorily as required by the lease.

Well a that's just more words from the owners.  When do you think you'll see workmen on site?

Why would the Trust Board come up with a £3m proposal for land that they will never hold the leases for?  It would make no sense and is the main reason Cilldara were unsuccesful in their bid.
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« Reply #35604 on: September 28, 2022, 12:13:46 pm »

It's a hypothesis that you hold and no more. An opinion based on the available evidence.
Actually you are also hypothesizing about what the Trust currently expects, so it's a hypothesis based on a hypothesis.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have expectations of any Trust bid to be much better for the fans and the club than what is currently on offer.  What would be the point otherwise?

Nothing hypothetical about what the Trust want.  Do you not read the regular statements on their website? 
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« Reply #35605 on: September 28, 2022, 12:23:38 pm »

Oh, MC, how you are confusing me. I'm 90% sure that you are being sarcastic but you are doing it so well it's making me wonder... in these strange days who can tell...
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« Reply #35606 on: September 28, 2022, 12:27:51 pm »

Oh, MC, how you are confusing me. I'm 90% sure that you are being sarcastic but you are doing it so well it's making me wonder... in these strange days who can tell...
Page 1779  Wink
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« Reply #35607 on: September 28, 2022, 12:37:22 pm »

Page 1779  Wink

Ah yes, thank god for that!
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« Reply #35608 on: September 28, 2022, 12:46:23 pm »

But you would shout anyone down who suggested you also do that...join the Trust to change the current Trust plan?

"Shout down" is a bit strong.  I have challenged anyone in the past who has simply told me I have to join the Trust Board to have an opinion or be able to change anything.  The idea that supporters let alone members aren't even attempted to be consulted with when that's who they represent?  The idea the Trust Board is made up of individuals to represent the fan base and yet is seemingly so unrepresentative of the majority of the fans.

What a ridiculous way that would be to run a membership led organisation.  And yet it's what we have ended up with.  We are all to blame for it.

I'd always hoped through debate and discussion people would be flexible and even if they didn't agree would at least understand and represent different views.  What seems to have happend is poeple have just become more entrenched to the point that most reasonable individuals who might have changed things have walked away.

So as I say if the Board are intent on not listening then maybe it's time supporters join en masse and effect change that way.  
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« Reply #35609 on: September 28, 2022, 13:27:27 pm »

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have expectations of any Trust bid to be much better for the fans and the club than what is currently on offer.  What would be the point otherwise?

Nothing hypothetical about what the Trust want.  Do you not read the regular statements on their website? 
I don't. It needs to be comparable at worst, it certainly doesn't have to be MUCH better.
I'm not an advocate of better the devil you know under any circumstances. Have you been entirely happy with events at Sixfields since the takeover?
Truthfully, no I don't regularly read statements put out by the Trust. I read them when prompted just like I've been prompted to listen to the Podcast. Which I haven't done so yet btw.
There is nothing hyperthetical about what the Trust have said they want previously but does that still stand. Seven years later is their ambition entirely the same as when KT took over or has their position changed along with that of others? Do you really know what the cabal currently wants for the club, or are you waiting to hear like others?
I'm fcuked if I do.

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« Reply #35610 on: September 28, 2022, 13:29:23 pm »

"Shout down" is a bit strong.  I have challenged anyone in the past who has simply told me I have to join the Trust Board to have an opinion or be able to change anything.  The idea that supporters let alone members aren't even attempted to be consulted with when that's who they represent?  The idea the Trust Board is made up of individuals to represent the fan base and yet is seemingly so unrepresentative of the majority of the fans.

What a ridiculous way that would be to run a membership led organisation.  And yet it's what we have ended up with.  We are all to blame for it.

I'd always hoped through debate and discussion people would be flexible and even if they didn't agree would at least understand and represent different views.  What seems to have happend is poeple have just become more entrenched to the point that most reasonable individuals who might have changed things have walked away.

So as I say if the Board are intent on not listening then maybe it's time supporters join en masse and effect change that way.  
Nothing wrong with that last sentence. Perhaps more of the blame should attach to the membership amd the wider fan base for not getting involved earlier if, as seems the case, the current board are swimming against the tide of public opinion.
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« Reply #35611 on: September 28, 2022, 13:58:41 pm »

Nothing wrong with that last sentence. Perhaps more of the blame should attach to the membership amd the wider fan base for not getting involved earlier if, as seems the case, the current board are swimming against the tide of public opinion.

The thing is, to join the Trust now would be taken as a show of support for their actions.
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« Reply #35612 on: September 28, 2022, 14:04:27 pm »

Nothing wrong with that last sentence. Perhaps more of the blame should attach to the membership amd the wider fan base for not getting involved earlier if, as seems the case, the current board are swimming against the tide of public opinion.

They don't listen to the members, so we should all become members to get them to listen to us?
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« Reply #35613 on: September 28, 2022, 15:46:14 pm »

The thing is, to join the Trust now would be taken as a show of support for their actions.
Not if enough joined to show the board their displeasure.
Acting passively and b*tching about them from a distance....I bet they laugh their little socks off at all who do that.
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« Reply #35614 on: September 28, 2022, 16:02:37 pm »

Tweet by James from the Chron...

Update to this - been told the Trust need to sort some details before they can say anything publicly. But they do intend to release a statement soon #ntfc https://twitter.com/chronsport/status/1575048439985049601
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« Reply #35615 on: September 28, 2022, 17:43:21 pm »

Tweet by James from the Chron...

Update to this - been told the Trust need to sort some details before they can say anything publicly. But they do intend to release a statement soon #ntfc https://twitter.com/chronsport/status/1575048439985049601
Have they stolen KT's playbook?
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« Reply #35616 on: September 28, 2022, 17:48:32 pm »

"Soon" is a step forward from "in due course".  Grin
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« Reply #35617 on: September 28, 2022, 18:26:38 pm »

Oh, MC, how you are confusing me. I'm 90% sure that you are being sarcastic but you are doing it so well it's making me wonder... in these strange days who can tell...

Honestly no sarcasm here.  I just think people should start thinking about what they expect out of the Trust deal.  I know what I want to see and I base that on everything they have said our owners should have done and how easy it is to do.  So my expectation is they deliver all of that and hopefully more.  If they guarantee all that in the same way they expect our owners to i.e. No Stand, No Land and personal guarantees they will have my backing.

If for instance the Trust proposal is a link up with Cilldara or another development company with no links to the town or club.  The deal is the dev company put up the £3m, Trust get the ACV land and the dev company get the rest of the dev land.  Happy with that?  I wouldn't be.  Especially if you factor in the damage to the club this sort of deal would cause.

If the Trust are going to go into battle with the club over this land they need to deliver something big for the supporters and the club to make up for the damage the deal will cause.  What worries me is resignations like GPC's don't bode well that this deal is going to be about what's best for the club but what can hurt the owners the most.  I just hope KT isn't right when he says the Trust aren't just there for the rainy day they are actively trying to cause the rainy day.
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« Reply #35618 on: September 28, 2022, 18:28:44 pm »

Grin Grin Grin

You can’t be serious. I absolutely agree in essence you are right. But what in your opinion would happen if they had the spine to put their behaviour and their actions to the test? I go to every home game, plus I attend most away games. I speak to a sizeable cross section of our support on the train and at matches. I could count those that I’ve come across, on the fingers of one hand after a sawmill accident who agree with their actions.

I made it clear that I wasn't suggesting he was wrong. Just that what he said wouldn't stand as evidence in a court of law. Wink Grin
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« Reply #35619 on: September 28, 2022, 18:37:19 pm »

Why are people talking about a trust deal or bid? - it’s complete fantasy - unless the judicial review proceeds and confirms WNC did not follow due process - until that happens (and it’s a very big if) the land is already sold for £2.05 million to CDNL - perhaps someone could enlighten me on why there is so much chatter on something that is currently very far from reality - how can there be reports that WNC are considering the “bid” when the situation is not actually open to bids?
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