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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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The 12th Marquis of Sixfields
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« Reply #1060 on: April 16, 2014, 16:37:15 pm »

Cheaper isn't always the better way
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« Reply #1061 on: April 16, 2014, 18:32:48 pm »

What would reduce speculation would be to spend a few quid on a display board outside the ground with detailed pictorial plans, artist impression, facts and figures etc.
Personally I think they are treading water for a few more weeks to see which league we end up in, which I would in the same position.
If it wasn't for the last decision to cut the revised capacity then there wouldn't be half of the noise there's been.
Also, the loan was based on certain promises and criteria. A key one for most people having a significantly increased capacity. It appears to have become a case of "Do what you want" with on the stadium side of the project.
You can always argue we don't fill what we have, which is rather flawed or else that applies to most new grounds we see today and limits marketing opportunities. Extremely short sighted if we are building for the future. If it is a case of holding money back to build extra capacity on the North and South, then just say so.
Communication has never been a strong point and during such a high profile redevelopment it's one of the most important factors. Speaks a man of experience in effective consultation.
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« Reply #1062 on: April 16, 2014, 18:44:59 pm »

If I had £10 million and I said I'd invest in the club, then gave you the supporters the option of an enhanced stand or the money being spent on players to try and get us up the leagues, what would you ask for?

This hasn't got anything to do with the redevelopment debate, I'm just asking really whether you'd prefer a brilliant ground or a brilliant team?

Think about it, then answer honestly. There's no right or wrong answer.
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« Reply #1063 on: April 16, 2014, 18:46:21 pm »

If I had £10 million and I said I'd invest in the club, then gave you the supporters the option of an enhanced stand or the money being spent on players to try and get us up the leagues, what would you ask for?

This hasn't got anything to do with the redevelopment debate, I'm just asking really whether you'd prefer a brilliant ground or a brilliant team?

Think about it, then answer honestly. There's no right or wrong answer.

£6 million on the ground.
£4 million on the team.

Since you asked.
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« Reply #1064 on: April 16, 2014, 18:46:27 pm »

The fact he never openly declared that there now wont be any extra capacity, but forced into an admission at the weekly presser by a local journo who was doing so from a request on twitter!

We would still be in the dark,

This is not good, I'm sure Macintosh wont be happy.
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John
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« Reply #1065 on: April 16, 2014, 19:07:44 pm »

£6 million on the ground.
£4 million on the team.

Since you asked.

Sorry Razor, it's my £10 million, you can have one or the other.
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« Reply #1066 on: April 16, 2014, 19:11:15 pm »

May I place on record that when attending a trust meeting myself and another poster(may have been everbright) raised concerns that no supporters had been consulted on their views regards any redevelopment and what they would like to see.*
It was asked why the trust who are there to act as a mouthpiece for supporters had not asked for fans opinions and put them to DC...
The reply was that they didn't want to rock the boat and DC probably wouldn't take any notice.
If anyone from the trust would like to deny that they have a right of reply.

*in fairness it may have been everbright who raised the issue with myself agreeing.

Anyway I didn't dream it and the above occurred.
I eagerly await a denial and coverup.
This doesn't detract from well meaning people who work hard as regards the trust but it does seem to show a contempt for the supporters they represent when they felt it within THEIR power not to bother asking the fanbase and raising concerns directly to the board.
That was my take on it anyway as one of I think two members of the public who bothered attending the open meeting.
Unfortunately Shoemaker you are quoting the meeting you attended incorrectly again. Soon after the meeting you came on here stating that "Someone on the Trust said that Cardoza is looking to sell". This was in fact another member of the public , not a Trust board member, repeating a rumour he had heard !
Regarding the fans being consulted ,if you look on the Trust Facebook & Twitter pages ,we did ask for fans opinions and to say we said we " didn't want to rock the boat" is a lie , the following is took from the minutes of the meeting.

"8b New development
Andy Clark feedback back points learnt from meeting his meeting with Steve Allen, who is project manager. The new stand will be a lightweight steel structure but how it is to be finished off has not been decided. Thoughts and ideas are very much welcome.
 Andy suggested that the Trust could be used to put forward constructive suggestions. The Board proposed that J A should devise a simple survey. Andy Clark will speak to David Cardoza to let him know what's happening. "

   Can I suggest that an apology is in order for your lies !!!
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« Reply #1067 on: April 16, 2014, 19:15:05 pm »

Sorry Razor, it's my £10 million, you can have one or the other.

Shove it up your arse then! Wink
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« Reply #1068 on: April 16, 2014, 19:26:02 pm »

Shove it up your arse then! Wink

Okay. I take it you don't want to answer the question.  Smiley
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« Reply #1069 on: April 16, 2014, 19:27:11 pm »

If I had £10 million and I said I'd invest in the club, then gave you the supporters the option of an enhanced stand or the money being spent on players to try and get us up the leagues, what would you ask for?

This hasn't got anything to do with the redevelopment debate, I'm just asking really whether you'd prefer a brilliant ground or a brilliant team?

Think about it, then answer honestly. There's no right or wrong answer.

Safe to say 99.9% of fans would want the money spent on the team.

I'd be the same.

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« Reply #1070 on: April 16, 2014, 19:28:37 pm »

Mainly because we all crave a successful football team and wouldn't have the patience to take the structured approach and invest in long term success.
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« Reply #1071 on: April 16, 2014, 19:32:12 pm »

If I had £10 million and I said I'd invest in the club, then gave you the supporters the option of an enhanced stand or the money being spent on players to try and get us up the leagues, what would you ask for?

This hasn't got anything to do with the redevelopment debate, I'm just asking really whether you'd prefer a brilliant ground or a brilliant team?

Think about it, then answer honestly. There's no right or wrong answer.

Stadium. £10million worth of players come with high wage bills = bigger outlay. A stadium with more 365 day facilities would = bigger income. There is no way we would be able to sustain a larger playing budget once the £10mill has run out.
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« Reply #1072 on: April 16, 2014, 19:34:11 pm »

If I had £10 million and I said I'd invest in the club, then gave you the supporters the option of an enhanced stand or the money being spent on players to try and get us up the leagues, what would you ask for?

This hasn't got anything to do with the redevelopment debate, I'm just asking really whether you'd prefer a brilliant ground or a brilliant team?

Think about it, then answer honestly. There's no right or wrong answer.

That is A question but a new one to this debate. If it is your £10m, or DC's or anyone elses, they could do what they like.
In such a public redevelopment, that has a direct impact on the lifeblood of that business, a proper consultation process should never really be a 'nice to have.'

In a consultation the business (i.e. NTFC) should have developed the project (which they did) and then set up some consultation meetings with the fans. If only we had a body to do this, like the Trust.  Tongue
So in most consultations you don't decide what to do with the initial funding. You feedback, shape, improve, highlight weaknesses, provide alternatives etc. Just welcoming suggestions isn't effective consultation.
However, ultimately the company can do (and often do) what they like as long as it's not breaking any laws or regs. In the long term though it will destroy your business, customer loyalty and the goodwill of anyone who works for you.

P.S. If you had £10m I'd say that you may as well build your own train track in your back garden, as judging by previous performance it'll probably get you flirting with non league football and a house on stilts.
But to answer your question seriously, I would say the ground. Well, as long as you showed me some exciting plans and how fantastic it was going to be, making my match day experience more enjoyable. If you spent it on the team we'd end up with a ton of overpaid journeymen (cough, Clive Platt) and if we did manage any success then the ground wouldn't be up to scratch anyway.
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The 12th Marquis of Sixfields
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« Reply #1073 on: April 16, 2014, 19:44:28 pm »


I'm sure Macintosh wont be happy.
Sold! I'm right behind you now Big Dave!
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« Reply #1074 on: April 16, 2014, 20:09:24 pm »

That is A question but a new one to this debate. If it is your £10m, or DC's or anyone elses, they could do what they like.
In such a public redevelopment, that has a direct impact on the lifeblood of that business, a proper consultation process should never really be a 'nice to have.'

In a consultation the business (i.e. NTFC) should have developed the project (which they did) and then set up some consultation meetings with the fans. If only we had a body to do this, like the Trust.  Tongue

This appeared on the previous page of this thread. The quote is from the minutes of the Trust Board meeting dated 16th Jan 2014.

 Item 8b. New development

"Andy Clark fedback back points learnt from meeting his meeting with Steve Allen, who is project manager. The new stand will be a lightweight steel structure but how it is to be finished off has not been decided. Thoughts and ideas are very much welcome.
 Andy suggested that the Trust could be used to put forward constructive suggestions. The Board proposed that J A should devise a simple survey. Andy Clark will speak to David Cardoza to let him know what's happening. "

     Tongue Tongue Tongue


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« Reply #1075 on: April 16, 2014, 21:17:05 pm »

This appeared on the previous page of this thread. The quote is from the minutes of the Trust Board meeting dated 16th Jan 2014.

 Item 8b. New development

"Andy Clark fedback back points learnt from meeting his meeting with Steve Allen, who is project manager. The new stand will be a lightweight steel structure but how it is to be finished off has not been decided. Thoughts and ideas are very much welcome.
 Andy suggested that the Trust could be used to put forward constructive suggestions. The Board proposed that J A should devise a simple survey. Andy Clark will speak to David Cardoza to let him know what's happening. "

     Tongue Tongue Tongue


Yeah, I read that. "Andy suggested that the Trust could be used to put forward constructive suggestions." is hardly a commitment to true consultation, which should have already been a live process anyway.
I would have thought at least 3 or 4 meetings with detailed minutes to specifically discuss the proposals would have been a sensible approach. Assuming that this happening, the Trust would be fully up to speed with all of the changes since the original proposal. They may not have agreed with them but they'd understand why the changes had been made and the full financial implications of what was going on.
Going forward it reads as though there may be a bit more input. Whichever way you slice it, it's been handled very poorly and the club have left themselves open to a lot of scrutiny.
 
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« Reply #1076 on: April 16, 2014, 21:59:38 pm »

Almost everything has been handled poorly in the last 10 years Tone that this latest stuff is no surprise to me.

This season on and off the pitch has once again demonstrated how low we have sunk. Finally some fans are actually realising what is going on. I'm afraid it might take non-league football for it to sink in for many others.

We have a chairman who did not want to invest in ground / staff improvements for 10 years because of this so called development. We could not improve the match day experience if it cost anything, (ie. move the ticket sales cabins, signage, etc etc) but suddenly we have great big County signs all over Sixfields. To me that clearly demonstrates exactly where DC is regarding NTFC the football club.

Please tell me something that has improved at Sixfields in the last 5 years?


DC feels that his £7 million has kept the club afloat and should give him authority to do just what he wants to get his money back. In any other business it would be true but not with professional football clubs. It is our club and he is absolutely destroying it, if this development goes ahead as is it will put us back 20 years or more.

You only have to look at Oxford, their former chairman built the ground, well started, got his hotel built and then left. It looks like history is repeating itself.

Roger, the Trust soon have to make a stand, either they are with the club / fans or with the chairman.
DC has little interest in the fans, or the team / club in the medium or long term.

With the development nothing has been mentioned regarding the supporters bar, the club shop, the ticket sales, the food and catering etc, nothing regarding the Trust have an office or meeting centre. Nothing.
Anyone trying to grow a club knows how important looking after the players and facilities are. Did you see the before and after East Stand photos, well they clearly show why we are bottom, WTF !
Has anything been said about training facilities or youth setup etc ?

Marvo. £10 million on stadium and training facilities every time.  Look at WBA, years ago they got into the Prem and struggled. The fans were calling for £5 m signings to stay up. The board refused and invested in the ground, staff and state of art training facilities. 10 years on or whatever, they are a reasonable prem club because their facilities allow them to attract the players and keep the better ones.

DC has already spent £7 million your way, on players and managers, look where it has got us, then look around the ground, look at those east stand photos.

Look also at Rotherham, fantastic new ground, look at their league position. But also look at their ball boys, all in matching track suits, even matching gloves and a nice seat to sit on, look at our ball boys, spot the difference.

Running a football club is bloody hard work, those with the passion do so much better than those without. 






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« Reply #1077 on: April 16, 2014, 22:03:14 pm »

The same passion goes for the fans too

Too many not bothered or too frightened
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« Reply #1078 on: April 16, 2014, 22:12:58 pm »

Has everyone looked at the plans? Surely this can't cost much of our £12m? I was of the impression that this fund would not be exhausted over this phase of the 'redevelopment'.

http://planning.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/Planning/StreamDocPage/obj.pdf?DocNo=4185361&PageNo=1&content=obj.pdf
Shows the small extension to the West that will house the 3 boxes on stilts, the boxes will not be pitch facing which is very odd to me!

http://planning.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/Planning/StreamDocPage/obj.pdf?DocNo=4185362&PageNo=1&content=obj.pdf
This shows the ground floor and what will be the internal layout of the west including new place for the club shop etc. Note the size of the Restaurant Function Room - does not look like an 800 seater to me!

http://planning.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/Planning/StreamDocPage/obj.pdf?DocNo=4185364&PageNo=1&content=obj.pdf
This shows the boxes on the second level which will stick out over the current box office entrance and include private toilets and kitchen facilities with private corridors to enter their seats in the West Stand.

Looks very poor to me!

I have given myself neck ache looking at these plans. There are 40 seats available in the "box seating area", which you would assume would be filled on match day, by directors, their partners, and associated lackeys. Thus leaving little scope for additional new customers.
This then raises the point about non match day revenue, which is surely the whole point of the development. Why would anybody want to hire a box with a view across a car park? If I held a meeting at an "executive box" at a football ground, then I would at the very least expect to be able to see the pitch. They could be built in the car park at far less cost. It will be interesting to see how they are marketed.
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« Reply #1079 on: April 16, 2014, 22:20:10 pm »

In fairness Barton I have the meeting recorded somewhere so can you come on here and say that at no time when asked why the trust didn't ask for feedback from the fans the answer was not as I quoted.
I have no idea what was on the trust website but have every idea what was actually said at the meeting regards rocking the boat DC taking no notice and a waste of time etc.
I have no gripe against you personally as I found you a decent bloke and the same goes for Anthony collet.
The point was raised by a chap called tony(no idea if that's everbright) if it is he has gone strangely quiet regards it and the answer was from a lady present on the night along with the trust rep who joined the meeting halfway through.
I can't apologise for things regards the website as I have no idea and it wasn't mentioned during the meeting.
If however you decide that the above events didn't take place feel free to say so.
I wouldn't go as far as saying you are a liar but I can assure you that if you think the above scenario did not occur it is you who are mistaken.
I won't ask for an apology as I realise that anyone can make a genuine mistake.
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