Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[Zen Master]

Don’t worry it’s next week

[Knockingonabit]

Thanks for that but it makes no difference, it'll be the same next Friday!   

[everbrite]

I agree with the sentiments of TFMH regarding the council, who have let down the residents of the town for as long as I have lived (a generalisation which I believe to be true but no doubt does a disservice to some who tried their very best).

How on earth they could have thought a Community Stadium with a capacity of less than 8,000 was appropriate for a town of 200,000 is beyond my comprehension. The lack of vision and pursuit of mediocrity engulfing the town in general and the centre in particular has prevailed for at least the last sixty years.

Anyway, what is done (or not as the case may be) is done and I am eager to see the drawings for the East Stand once they are available, being tragically unable to visit Sixfields later today due to various appointments with establishments that remain open in the town centre for the purposes of imbibing liquid beverages.     

Not sure if you just merely prefer to ignore the past but you certainly gravitate to hindsight statements. The Club was in an awful state by the middle part of the ‘90’s. The County Ground was also in a poor material state with no chance of development due to the preeminence of the Bowls/Cricket Clubs. We were fortunate to be league club too. Hence the Council threw us a life line with Sixfields plus the added temptation of land deals! Almost immediately we sprung into life with two visits to Wembley! Now Sixfields is now deemed not fit for purpose. After a few years the support had dwindled to what it is now; lucky to get 6000 on a match day. Until we build a decent team competitive in League One and the Championship, success will avoid us. When the Stadium is sold out on a consistent basis then there maybe an opportunity for grandiose development! We need meaningful success on the pitch to attract proper support (a la the Bowen years) then perhaps we might attract investment. Melly is right success on the pitch is paramount. We must learn to think with our heads not our hearts. Even with Wilder we failed on numerous occasions to fill the Stadium yet quite a few want a Stadium with 12000 souls when we cannot currently attract more than a third of that enlarged capacity. Fan ownership with out a benefactor will condemn us to a tiny but much loved lower league side (or worse). Horse and Cart, Chicken and Egg and grand scenarios is common on here. Read the latest comments on here from Hamster and Melly; Brains before rash statements of pie in the sky ambitions.

[guest2995]

interesting development on the police pressing charges on 7 individuals donating funds over £500.
No Grossman mentioned and no mention of the recipient either .
Has anyone any light to throw in this ?

[Tabasco Kid]

interesting development on the police pressing charges on 7 individuals donating funds over £500.
No Grossman mentioned and no mention of the recipient either .
Has anyone any light to throw in this ?

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/seven-charged-by-police-investigating-missing-ps1025m-council-loan-to-northampton-town-fc-3277975

[guest3359]

interesting development on the police pressing charges on 7 individuals donating funds over £500.
No Grossman mentioned and no mention of the recipient either .
Has anyone any light to throw in this ?

Would strongly advise against this, whether 'fact' or speculation as don't want to jeopardise anything.

[Knockingonabit]

Jeez Everbrite, thanks for the condescending lecture but what the hell are you on about?

What has hindsight got to do with it, how do you know what my thoughts were regarding the capacity of the stadium were when it was built. I can tell you they were very much the same as now.

If you read my post again it was primarily about the Town Council and what I feel has been its shocking performance over the last few decades, nothing about fan ownership or rash pie in the sky ambitions.

You are a master contrarian, give it a rest!

[BackOfTheNet]

Would strongly advise against this, whether 'fact' or speculation as don't want to jeopardise anything.

Completely agree. What I do hope though is that this is just the first domino to fall and others will follow. It will be very disappointing if after all this time this is the only thing the CPS thinks will stick from the police investigation.

[Risdene]

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/seven-charged-by-police-investigating-missing-ps1025m-council-loan-to-northampton-town-fc-3277975

I believe this is the side show.

The main decision concerning the Stadium money, by the CPS, still needs to be made!

[guest3429]

Not sure if you just merely prefer to ignore the past but you certainly gravitate to hindsight statements. The Club was in an awful state by the middle part of the ‘90’s. The County Ground was in a poor material state with no chance of development due to the preeminence of the Cricket Club. We were fortunate to be league club too. Hence the Council through us a life line with Sixfields plus the added temptation of land deals! Almost immediately we sprung into life with two visits to Wembley! Now Sixfields is not deemed not fit for purpose. After a few years the support had dwindled to what it is now; lucky to get 6000 on a match day. Until we build a decent team competitive in League One and the Championship, success will avoid us. When the Stadium is sold out on a consistent basis then there maybe an opportunity for grandiose development! We need meaningful success on the pitch to attract proper support (a la the Bowen years) then perhaps we might attract investment. Melly is right success on the pitch is paramount. We must learn to think with our heads not our hearts. Even with Wilder we failed on numerous occasions to fill the Stadium yet quite a few want a Stadium with 12000 souls when we cannot currently attract more than a third of that enlarged capacity. Fan ownership with out a benefactor will condemn us to a tiny but much loved lower league side (or worse). Horse and Cart, Chicken and Egg and grand scenarios is common on here. Read the latest comments on here from Hamster and Melly; Brains before rash statements of pie in the sky ambitions.

Not for the first time in this thread you are completely wrong and even contradict yourself.

Its not a chicken and egg situation at all? You cant keep chickens without a coop or they will all be eaten. I really don't know why the Egyptians bothered with those pyramids, why Victorians built huge hotels outside their new stations, or why Norman Foster even has a job? We all aspire to the best home/business environment we can have or we may as well just sit in a field.

Sixfields is not fit for purpose, so don't argue it is, it was never intended to be in the same state for many years and why the south, east and north had easily removable roofs. I spoke with Barry Stonhill back then over the plans to expand the stadium and they were to be implemented immediately had we beat Grimsby.

The limited capacity, lack of premium entertainment and hospitality all hold the club back, on and off the pitch. Ticketing is fine for the hardened supporter but has certainly put off generating further "spur of the moment support". Not only that the experience often leaves people cold and its the whole experience people go for and why the Wembley visits were so well populated and the big clubs stay full, people don't want to miss out on a party. Had the stadium a capacity of 15k and some refined facilities the Wilder season would have generated a much higher average gate.

A further important point is players want to play in the bigger better stadiums its what drives them. you will know Dave Bowen used to sign players at Watford Gap as he was so embarrassed of The County Ground.

An improved stadium will increase attendances just as Sixfields increased the gates from the CG, this is your own implication! If Sixfields is expanded and facilities improve it will generate greater wealth for the club and more players would be inclined to sign, its not always the money, both of these are issues as to why we are in league 2.

Your home and surroundings tell you everything you need to know about a person or business.

[guest168]

Evers. the main reason we don't sell out when we are doing well is because of the lack of decent seats. A bigger capacity would give us more seats "in the middle"

I bet your seat is not front row in the corner is it?

It's all about perceived value, if we are playing Man Utd people will set anywhere but if its Macclesfield they will think twice. Also more seats allows regulars to bring along friends etc and sit together.

We will NEVER grow without the infrastructure. 5 years ago we won League 2 by 13 points, look where we are today.

Sh*tboro are 2 Leagues above us so I think that settles that argument Melly !!!

[Dan]

Not for the first time in this thread you are completely wrong and even contradict yourself.

Its not a chicken and egg situation at all? You cant keep chickens without a coop or they will all be eaten. I really don't know why the Egyptians bothered with those pyramids, why Victorians built huge hotels outside their new stations, or why Norman Foster even has a job? We all aspire to the best home/business environment we can have or we may as well just sit in a field.

Sixfields is not fit for purpose, so don't argue it is, it was never intended to be in the same state for many years and why the south, east and north had easily removable roofs. I spoke with Barry Stonhill back then over the plans to expand the stadium and they were to be implemented immediately had we beat Grimsby.

The limited capacity, lack of premium entertainment and hospitality all hold the club back, on and off the pitch. Ticketing is fine for the hardened supporter but has certainly put off generating further "spur of the moment support". Not only that the experience often leaves people cold and its the whole experience people go for and why the Wembley visits were so well populated and the big clubs stay full, people don't want to miss out on a party. Had the stadium a capacity of 15k and some refined facilities the Wilder season would have generated a much higher average gate.

A further important point is players want to play in the bigger better stadiums its what drives them. you will know Dave Bowen used to sign players at Watford Gap as he was so embarrassed of The County Ground.

An improved stadium will increase attendances just as Sixfields increased the gates from the CG, this is your own implication! If Sixfields is expanded and facilities improve it will generate greater wealth for the club and more players would be inclined to sign, its not always the money, both of these are issues as to why we are in league 2.

Your home and surroundings tell you everything you need to know about a person or business.

This is one of the best posts I’ve read in months.

[Manwork04]

Not for the first time in this thread you are completely wrong and even contradict yourself.

Its not a chicken and egg situation at all? You cant keep chickens without a coop or they will all be eaten. I really don't know why the Egyptians bothered with those pyramids, why Victorians built huge hotels outside their new stations, or why Norman Foster even has a job? We all aspire to the best home/business environment we can have or we may as well just sit in a field.

Sixfields is not fit for purpose, so don't argue it is, it was never intended to be in the same state for many years and why the south, east and north had easily removable roofs. I spoke with Barry Stonhill back then over the plans to expand the stadium and they were to be implemented immediately had we beat Grimsby.

The limited capacity, lack of premium entertainment and hospitality all hold the club back, on and off the pitch. Ticketing is fine for the hardened supporter but has certainly put off generating further "spur of the moment support". Not only that the experience often leaves people cold and its the whole experience people go for and why the Wembley visits were so well populated and the big clubs stay full, people don't want to miss out on a party. Had the stadium a capacity of 15k and some refined facilities the Wilder season would have generated a much higher average gate.

A further important point is players want to play in the bigger better stadiums its what drives them. you will know Dave Bowen used to sign players at Watford Gap as he was so embarrassed of The County Ground.

An improved stadium will increase attendances just as Sixfields increased the gates from the CG, this is your own implication! If Sixfields is expanded and facilities improve it will generate greater wealth for the club and more players would be inclined to sign, its not always the money, both of these are issues as to why we are in league 2.

Your home and surroundings tell you everything you need to know about a person or business.

Spot on Steve.
The current state of affairs tells you all you need to know about our owners, anyone that goes just have a look at the upkeep of the stadium as it is.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Evers. the main reason we don't sell out when we are doing well is because of the lack of decent seats. A bigger capacity would give us more seats "in the middle"

I bet your seat is not front row in the corner is it?

It's all about perceived value, if we are playing Man Utd people will set anywhere but if its Macclesfield they will think twice. Also more seats allows regulars to bring along friends etc and sit together.

We will NEVER grow without the infrastructure. 5 years ago we won League 2 by 13 points, look where we are today.

Sh*tboro are 2 Leagues above us so I think that settles that argument Melly !!!

It doesn’t. Perhaps it’s down to what they’ve spent on the pitch rather than what’s around it. So you could argue it settles it in my favour.

[everbrite]

Evers. the main reason we don't sell out when we are doing well is because of the lack of decent seats. A bigger capacity would give us more seats "in the middle"

I bet your seat is not front row in the corner is it?

It's all about perceived value, if we are playing Man Utd people will set anywhere but if its Macclesfield they will think twice. Also more seats allows regulars to bring along friends etc and sit together.

We will NEVER grow without the infrastructure. 5 years ago we won League 2 by 13 points, look where we are today.

Sh*tboro are 2 Leagues above us so I think that settles that argument Melly !!!

Unfortunately Random if the quantity of seats is holding us back then that would be remedied quickly. The main weakness of your argument is simply success on the pitch. With success more fans will come and if that success builds momentum more success is guaranteed. IMO!

[Shoemender]

Unfortunately Random if the quality of seats is holding us back then that would be remedied quickly. The main weakness of your argument is simply success on the pitch. With success more fans will come and if that success builds momentum more success is guaranteed. IMO!

With success, more fans won’t come, because the ground isn’t big enough! How many 5 figure crowds have we had at sixfields? None. Why’s that? Because the ground isn’ big enough. How many 5 figure crowds did we have at The County Ground in our last period of success there? Several. Why’s that? Because the ground was big enough. Admittedly it didn’t lead to any sustained success, but that’s because our days there were numbered and when we did move, 6 years later, the ground wasn’t big enough and it‘s still the same now, 27 years later, despite several periods of relative success. We do have the potential for bigger crowds, but even with a period of sustained success, we still won’t get them because the ground isn’t big enough.

[everbrite]

Jeez Everbrite, thanks for the condescending lecture but what the hell are you on about?

What has hindsight got to do with it, how do you know what my thoughts were regarding the capacity of the stadium were when it was built. I can tell you they were very much the same as now.

If you read my post again it was primarily about the Town Council and what I feel has been its shocking performance over the last few decades, nothing about fan ownership or rash pie in the sky ambitions.

You are a master contrarian, give it a rest!

You still ignore the past and the empty rhetoric is a bit pointless. You have selected the former NBC as a prime target yet they threw us a life line in the first place! I understand your opinion but to me you have simply ignored the other essential factor - finance. Sixfields is a poor mans stadium built on a budget. At the time the support was insufficient to justify a stadium at least 4 times bigger than was actually needed! I don’t see the point of criticising the Council when they have lost £12m on a development that never was!  We both have simply different opinions how the Club is to grow and develop. That’s how the Forum thrives.

[everbrite]

With success, more fans won’t come, because the ground isn’t big enough! How many 5 figure crowds have we had at sixfields? None. Why’s that? Because the ground isn’ big enough. How many 5 figure crowds did we have at The County Ground in our last period of success there? Several. Why’s that? Because the ground was big enough. Admittedly it didn’t lead to any sustained success, but that’s because our days there were numbered and when we did move, 6 years later, the ground wasn’t big enough and it‘s still the same now, 27 years later, despite several periods of relative success. We do have the potential for bigger crowds, but even with a period of sustained success, we still won’t get them because the ground isn’t big enough.

Care to explain the hundreds of unsold seats in the Wilder promotion year? Or even the lack of support after the 2020 Playoff Final. Blaming Curle is not an argument; we still had over 500 unsold ST’s prior to season start

[Shoemender]

Care to explain the hundreds of unsold seats in the Wilder promotion year? Or even the lack of support after the 2020 Playoff Final. Blaming Curle is not an argument; we still had over 500 unsold ST’s prior to season start

A lot of this is due simply to the ground not being big enough or being a soulless shell. I know a couple of people who don’t go to home games because of this and I’m sure some people know others who have the same viewpoint. If the ground was bigger, say, 12 to 15 thousand, so not massive by any stretch of the imagination, and you could just turn up on a whim, with your mates and sit with your mates and pay on the gate, just like at the county ground, although for sit read stand, then more people would come and then if we had some success, more and more would come and we could accommodate them and accommodate far more away fans and maybe attract better quality players as Steve Massey was alluding to earlier. Melly mentioned Sunderland earlier as an example of a big ground not guaranteeing success, which is obviously true, but they have had a fair amount of success in the past and that wasn’t achieved in a sub 8000 capacity stadium. As for blaming Curle, not sure what you’re on about there. I think a large part of not selling as many season tickets was possibly because we were in the middle of a pandemic and the lack of support after the play off final was probably due to no one being able to go.

[everbrite]

With success, more fans won’t come, because the ground isn’t big enough! How many 5 figure crowds have we had at sixfields? None. Why’s that? Because the ground isn’ big enough. How many 5 figure crowds did we have at The County Ground in our last period of success there? Several. Why’s that? Because the ground was big enough. Admittedly it didn’t lead to any sustained success, but that’s because our days there were numbered and when we did move, 6 years later, the ground wasn’t big enough and it‘s still the same now, 27 years later, despite several periods of relative success. We do have the potential for bigger crowds, but even with a period of sustained success, we still won’t get them because the ground isn’t big enough.

I agree with potential but to simply argue x 5 that the ground is not big enough hardly runs true. What you appear to be unable grasp is when we do have some success the crowds still don't come - how many times did we sell out in 2019 or even 2015? There were  generally 100's of unsold seats in most games. Your idea that a bigger ground would entice more fans is pure pie in the sky and would bankrupt the Club in short time. Do you have any commercial business experience - if not cease your foolish demands?