Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[The 12th Marquis of Sixfields]

Ground, stadium, pretty much the same thing now.

Ignore the fact that the words ground and stadium are interchangable, that was not what I meant.


He says the reason we don't sell out is because there aren't enough seats in the middle. Then he says we need a bigger capacity to give us those extra seats in the middle. Ergo, we don't sell out because the ground/stadium isn't big enough.

[Shoemender]

Ignore the fact that the words ground and stadium are interchangable, that was not what I meant.


He says the reason we don't sell out is because there aren't enough seats in the middle. Then he says we need a bigger capacity to give us those extra seats in the middle. Ergo, we don't sell out because the ground/stadium isn't big enough.

Not exactly, but hey ho. I read it one way, you choose to read it another. Let’s just agree to disagree.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

One step at a time? - Sweet Jesus. Its been 25 years!

Luckily for everyone at the club your frankly absurd views and opinions are contained here mostly. They are also at odds with Derek Banks, Barry Stonhill, your mate Cardoza and now Kelvin Thomas who all have looked into increasing capacity, which says something doesn't it?

Funding stadium improvements has nothing to to do with playing budget so that's your first theory kicked into the long grass.

Lets make it simple for you. Lets assume the new management team have some minor aspirations of success on the field, maybe even dare to challenge for promotion, maybe a cup run too? Are we straying too far into the realms of fantasy?

So next season, we happen to reach round 3 and draw lets say, Leicester at home and as if by magic we have a capacity of 15k, would you expect an attendance of a)6500  b)9000 or c)12,000

The season continues to be a relative success and we somehow manage to reach the play offs and face Swindon over two legs, again I post the same question, a,b or c?

We have just read posts here from people actively put off by the Sixfields experience, "embarrassed" even. I too when in the UK will not go to Sixfields, call me what you want but I want a decent day out so will only go away. I am not alone.

If my utterly fanciful scenario actually played out, those new or returning supporters would have enjoyed being part of the 12,000+ crowds and improved atmosphere, able to get seats together, 3,4 in a row not families and friends separated, squeezed into the extremities, as Random rightly points out. They enjoy the experience so much, similarly to the Swansea game at Wembley, they tell their friends, unashamedly they invite people along for the next experience, knowing they will be entertained. This is how it works, just the same as any business.

Forgive me but my somewhat fanciful story continues... To our collective delight, Messrs Brady, Calderwood, Richards, Sampson get us promoted back to league one and the fixture list comes out. The first three home games are against Peterborough, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday. I'll refer you again to my previous options, choose a,b or c?

Very few Premier league grounds sell out to capacity, if you think waiting until people are banging on the door to come in is the correct time to expand your business, it will never happen and you will have potentially lost a huge proportion of new business elsewhere. It doesn't matter if you sell coffee, warehousing and distribution or football the philosophy is exactly the same.

I can give you a guarantee, not an opinion. If an impressive new stand emerged, lauded and promoted on the media it would be full for its opening game. Impress the new occupants and there's a very good chance they will return.

This is not for you to dispel as some whimsical idea, these are facts and backed up by the intentions of most previous and current owners who have wished for a larger and better equipped stadium. In 30 odd years in commercial and domestic property development, I have never once heard your theory before?

Bored of repeating the bleeding obvious.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2016/10/04/tracking-the-impact-of-arsenals-move-to-emirates-stadium-ten-years-on-was-it-worth-it/

[guest49]

Bored of repeating the bleeding obvious.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2016/10/04/tracking-the-impact-of-arsenals-move-to-emirates-stadium-ten-years-on-was-it-worth-it/

Trying to glean any comparisons out of that is like measuring a back yard go-kart alongside a Lamborghini 

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Trying to glean any comparisons out of that is like measuring a back yard go-kart alongside a Lamborghini 

it’s all a question of scale but the principal applies. The fact is that the idea that funding any sort of development wouldn’t have the potential to impact on the playing budget is wrong and I don’t care what the claimed experience is to quantify it.

[guest3429]

Bored of repeating the bleeding obvious.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2016/10/04/tracking-the-impact-of-arsenals-move-to-emirates-stadium-ten-years-on-was-it-worth-it/

I'm pulling a straight red card on you there Melly, frankly this is so far out of context for our kitchen extension you may as well talk about signing Harry Kane. Were not building Blenheim Palace.

Ill rephrase it for you. Funding for this particular stadium improvement has according to our chairman been accounted for and he has previously stated will not affect playing budget, so that's your first theory kicked into the long grass.

Send him your impact study.

[guest3429]

I don’t care what the claimed experience is to quantify it.

Enough to push developments past stubborn button pushers!

I would like to see an impact study on White Hart Lane however, that is affecting the playing budget.

[everbrite]

One step at a time? - Sweet Jesus. Its been 25 years!

Luckily for everyone at the club your frankly absurd views and opinions are contained here mostly. They are also at odds with Derek Banks, Barry Stonhill, your mate Cardoza and now Kelvin Thomas who all have looked into increasing capacity, which says something doesn't it?

Funding stadium improvements has nothing to to do with playing budget so that's your first theory kicked into the long grass.

Lets make it simple for you. Lets assume the new management team have some minor aspirations of success on the field, maybe even dare to challenge for promotion, maybe a cup run too? Are we straying too far into the realms of fantasy?

So next season, we happen to reach round 3 and draw lets say, Leicester at home and as if by magic we have a capacity of 15k, would you expect an attendance of a)6500  b)9000 or c)12,000

The season continues to be a relative success and we somehow manage to reach the play offs and face Swindon over two legs, again I post the same question, a,b or c?

We have just read posts here from people actively put off by the Sixfields experience, "embarrassed" even. I too when in the UK will not go to Sixfields, call me what you want but I want a decent day out so will only go away. I am not alone.

If my utterly fanciful scenario actually played out, those new or returning supporters would have enjoyed being part of the 12,000+ crowds and improved atmosphere, able to get seats together, 3,4 in a row not families and friends separated, squeezed into the extremities, as Random rightly points out. They enjoy the experience so much, similarly to the Swansea game at Wembley, they tell their friends, unashamedly they invite people along for the next experience, knowing they will be entertained. This is how it works, just the same as any business.

Forgive me but my somewhat fanciful story continues... To our collective delight, Messrs Brady, Calderwood, Richards, Sampson get us promoted back to league one and the fixture list comes out. The first three home games are against Peterborough, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday. I'll refer you again to my previous options, choose a,b or c?

Very few Premier league grounds sell out to capacity, if you think waiting until people are banging on the door to come in is the correct time to expand your business, it will never happen and you will have potentially lost a huge proportion of new business elsewhere. It doesn't matter if you sell coffee, warehousing and distribution or football the philosophy is exactly the same.

I can give you a guarantee, not an opinion. If an impressive new stand emerged, lauded and promoted on the media it would be full for its opening game. Impress the new occupants and there's a very good chance they will return.

This is not for you to dispel as some whimsical idea, these are facts and backed up by the intentions of most previous and current owners who have wished for a larger and better equipped stadium. In 30 odd years in commercial and domestic property development, I have never once heard your theory before?

Dear Dreamer
When you have insufficient funds it is best to take care! Somebody else on this thread also voiced concern - Cobblertone?
So you pluck 35yrs ago how does that effect the Development?
After this you base your ‘thesis’ ( on assumptions but no specific facts.
The known and established fact to fill stadiums is a consistent and successful side. Not sure if you appreciate this simple fact?
You cannot give a guarantee on here without the means to do so😎 As you say your proposals are somewhat fanciful. I agree with you!

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I'm pulling a straight red card on you there Melly, frankly this is so far out of context for our kitchen extension you may as well talk about signing Harry Kane. Were not building Blenheim Palace.

Ill rephrase it for you. Funding for this particular stadium improvement has according to our chairman been accounted for and he has previously stated will not affect playing budget, so that's your first theory kicked into the long grass.

Send him your impact study.

https://www.spurs-web.com/spurs-news/opinion-steve-hitchen-is-the-biggest-problem-at-spurs/

I’ll keep them coming. Expenditure is expenditure and its potential burden is relative to income.
Spurs Stadium cost may dwarf our kitchen extension but our income isn’t over 400 million a year either is it? If the 2 are so separate what do you suppose happened to the original 4 million that was set aside for the development. Sorry Steven, the 2 are linked and no amount of persuasive argument will change my opinion.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Enough to push developments past stubborn button pushers!

I would like to see an impact study on White Hart Lane however, that is affecting the playing budget.

I’d give you my C.V but I don’t think it would help.

[guest3429]

I’ll keep them coming. Expenditure is expenditure and its potential burden is relative to income.
Spurs Stadium cost may dwarf our kitchen extension but our income isn’t over 400 million a year either is it? If the 2 are so separate what do you suppose happened to the original 4 million that was set aside for the development. Sorry Steven, the 2 are linked and no amount of persuasive argument will change my opinion. I’d give you my C.V but I don’t think it would help.

You just said you were bored with posting? Make your mind up!

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say, you are absolutely correct, they are inextricably linked, however you must take the chairman at his word in this specific instance. Maybe you or Evers could pose the very question next week?

If this development goes ahead, will it affect the playing budget?

I appreciate we are opposite ends of the spectrum but when project managers, financiers tell me they cannot afford it, I tell them they cant afford not to. Usually meet somewhere in the middle and then go way over!

[guest3429]

I’d give you my C.V but I don’t think it would help.

No than you Melly, I might owe you money? 

[Melbourne Cobbler]

You just said you were bored with posting? Make your mind up!

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say, you are absolutely correct, they are inextricably linked, however you must take the chairman at his word in this specific instance. Maybe you or Evers could pose the very question next week?

If this development goes ahead, will it affect the playing budget?

I appreciate we are opposite ends of the spectrum but when project managers, financiers tell me they cannot afford it, I tell them they cant afford not to. Usually meet somewhere in the middle and then go way over!

I’m not really bored with the subject matter, TBH I find the different points of view fascinating. Personally with regards to your last paragraph I take each case on its merits, sometimes it’s true, sometimes not. I’ll wait to see how the finance is structured before I pass comment. As a matter of interest when spend on a project goes over, is it typically about 30%, just a theory I have?

[guest3429]

I’m not really bored with the subject matter, TBH I find the different points of view fascinating. Personally with regards to your last paragraph I take each case on its merits, sometimes it’s true, sometimes not. I’ll wait to see how the finance is structured before I pass comment. As a matter of interest when spend on a project goes over, is it typically about 30%, just a theory I have?

As an average I would say 25%. Ive never been involved with a project other than my own build that has not gone over estimates or contingency. Mainly due to clients changing their minds and delays. Never compromise the finish.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

As an average I would say 25%. Ive never been involved with a project other than my own build that has not gone over estimates or contingency. Mainly due to clients changing their minds and delays. Never compromise the finish.

Always goes over for me, not quite the expert I make out am I.

[guest3429]

It is fascinating I agree, many clubs have almost gone to the wall with over ambitious projects, Chelsea's East stand, Forest and Wolves all had problems.

I do see a significant difference here though as mentioned a few posts back, there is a genuine appetite (excuse the pun) for some greater standard of commercial offering at the club.

This specific gaping hole absolutely needs filling, not only for the F&B opportunities but some impressive and plush surroundings may open cheque books that were previously absent, just keep pouring the wine!

For £4m? The returns are greater than the risk. You cant afford not to. 

[guest49]

Ultimately any investment in a football club, restaurant, cinema, retail store...costing hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds is a risk. If the demand is there it will pay back over a projected period. It's normally impacted by several variables, many unforeseen (Covid an extreme but prime example), which is why for every thriving McDonalds franchise there is a Frankie and Benny's.
Arsenal have the brand and demand, we don't. We are more the poorly marketed independent back street cafe who haven't invested and borrowed to tread water, whilst waiting for the council to lay us an golden egg. We are still worth £1 at best if debt free.
 

[Tabasco Kid]

As an average I would say 25%. Ive never been involved with a project other than my own build that has not gone over estimates or contingency. Mainly due to clients changing their minds and delays. Never compromise the finish.

They always go over. One site the client went home on friday, smoked something funny, came back on monday, and said that he wanted a swimming pool on the roof. Cue underpinning, steel supports, road closure, roof reinforcement.
And I once put underfloor heating in the summerhouse of a well known actress in Primrose Hill. She liked it so much, that she wanted it put in the garden as well. More money than sense.

[guest3429]

They always go over. One site the client went home on friday, smoked something funny, came back on monday, and said that he wanted a swimming pool on the roof. Cue underpinning, steel supports, road closure, roof reinforcement.
And I once put underfloor heating in the summerhouse of a well known actress in Primrose Hill. She liked it so much, that she wanted it put in the garden as well. More money than sense.

  Ah London, I saw you coming!

[Krispyduc]

Sorry about another thread regards redevelopment!

The club currently have a job going for box office and CRM manager, nothing really interesting in that! However in the job description the following job role requirements are listed:-

c) Working with the club Chairman on how ticketing and stadium entry will work post re-development.
d) Look at costs and benefits of implementing an access control system into the stadium. Looking at avenues open to increasing matchday revenue and cost savings by having a full or part system in place.

Am I reading too much into this, or doe this mean the stadium work is not far from kicking off???

Be nice to think so.
Really not sure about this thing on Friday.
I would love to be positive but reading some of the posts and comments on Facebook there seems to be something going on behind the scenes(whatever that is)