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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1178494 times)
BackOfTheNet
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« Reply #29160 on: September 08, 2021, 10:52:19 am »

Of course all good stuff and Iím sure the council will listen  - but then what?

Great ideas which Iím sure all fans would support but somewhat thin on any tangible business plan - unfortunately the council have been badly stung by NTFC and without alternative (not KT and DB) financial backing why would they support the Trustís suggestion. The trust state they would welcome financial support by an owner who had the interests of the club at heart - thereby firmly nailing their colours to the mast re the current owners but (1) was there any consultation with members on this thinly veiled attack on the current owners and (2) where are these new owners with the trusts presumed approval.
I have a bad feeling that the combination of KTís self interest, the council wishing to appeal to the wider Northamptonshire council tax payer and the Trustís wishful thinking will end up badly for the club - I truly wish I had an alternative and of course itís easy to criticise but surely the Trust should be spending more energy trying to work with the current owners rather than being divisive  - or is it now a case of a battle of egos, and in which case our football club will be the loser.

Well said. Where are the business cases that justify the Trusts alternative suggestions for land usage? Where is the evidence that there's sufficient/any interest from fans in investing in an "infrastructure foundation"?

More pie in the sky idealism with no substance that will do no more than drive a wedge further between the club and the Trust while simultaneously throwing a spanner into the negotiations between the club and the council.
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« Reply #29161 on: September 08, 2021, 11:12:14 am »

There we go, didn't take long for "pie in the sky" to come out

You do realise how badly we are doing as a football club ?

You do realise lots of other clubs are doing so much better?

Why does the Trust have to justify and account for every single thing they say, whilst you don't raise one question to the owners?

Lets talk about business then, lower league football clubs have an income of about £6m on average, and chose to spend around £6.3m. So for the club to be sustainable it needs to either raise an additional £300k or more and or reduce costs. NTFC loses around £500k per year whilst DC actually managed to run almost at break even.

So the question is... Can Northampton with 100+ years of history, with a population of 250k and another 250k in surrounding areas, in a relatively wealthy area with many businesses, small and large, raise an extra £300k plus per year? 

If the club was to get a share of any land development and so start an infrastructure foundation with £5m (the East stand would not have been developed at that point), isn't that something supporters and locals could get behind ?
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« Reply #29162 on: September 08, 2021, 11:23:43 am »

I think it should also be said that KT has full time media people, CEO etc and £6m income to be able to produce business plans, ideas, marketing campaigns etc

The Trust at this time have an annual income of say £10k, run by a few volunteers, all of whom have full time jobs.

The Trust needs to attract new members, new board and new investment if it is to really investigate things like infrastructure foundations etc.

But they have to start somewhere, sometime.


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BackOfTheNet
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« Reply #29163 on: September 08, 2021, 11:28:09 am »

I think it should also be said that KT has full time media people, CEO etc and £6m income to be able to produce business plans, ideas, marketing campaigns etc

The Trust at this time have an annual income of say £10k, run by a few volunteers, all of whom have full time jobs.

The Trust needs to attract new members, new board and new investment if it is to really investigate things like infrastructure foundations etc.

But they have to start somewhere, sometime.




They do. But until there's some actual substance to any of it, it remains pie in the sky. Sorry, but it does.
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« Reply #29164 on: September 08, 2021, 11:38:53 am »

Hi Tone,  Do you think that the owners should get all their money back that they have badly spent on the back of delivering such poor value for money?

Do you think it is acceptable that NTFC loses valuable land asset just so the owners can get their money (which they already have from the Chinese deal) back and make a profit on basically asset stripping?

Its not our fault that we are again almost £7m in debt with nothing to show for it. That is mainly on the owners.

If the club or infrastructure had been improved, then there is a better case, but in 6 years the only thing that has changed is the debt has risen from £500k to approx £7m.

That is why the owners should not expect to walk away having recovered their monies and profit, without leaving NTFC in far better position with a positive future. That is possible but it's going to take compromise, ambition and effort.

If the land deal is going to bring a windfall then the Owners, NTFC and WNC should perhaps have an equal share



Hi mate,
Whether itís right or wrong they arenít going to walk away (or sell) if they can help it without covering their losses at a minimum and Iím sure a tidy profit if they can.
Just plucking a fictitious figure of £20m. Iím sure a bit finishes the stand, some would cover the loans and then who knows with the rest. Thatís where the financial transparency is needed and Iím sure would be available if not published.
I struggle to see a happy ending for the club and at the moment Iíd say there is definitely no guarantee they are going to get their money back.
Ultimately itís a Ďbusinessí that is never going to be worth much without significant investment and success, so theyíll struggle to sell. Maybe they will cut their losses at some point but not sure where thatíd leave us.
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All he had to do was build a stand.
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« Reply #29165 on: September 08, 2021, 12:44:30 pm »

Hi mate,
Whether itís right or wrong they arenít going to walk away (or sell) if they can help it without covering their losses at a minimum and Iím sure a tidy profit if they can.
Just plucking a fictitious figure of £20m. Iím sure a bit finishes the stand, some would cover the loans and then who knows with the rest. Thatís where the financial transparency is needed and Iím sure would be available if not published.
I struggle to see a happy ending for the club and at the moment Iíd say there is definitely no guarantee they are going to get their money back.
Ultimately itís a Ďbusinessí that is never going to be worth much without significant investment and success, so theyíll struggle to sell. Maybe they will cut their losses at some point but not sure where thatíd leave us.
There is no happy ending either way the club get shafted if we sit around and do nothing.
What the trust are doing is trying to limit the damage, the land is our bank account which we can massively improve the stadium and in time increase turnover making us a more attractive proposition to a potential buyer.
Sit around and let our current owners get their way and we will be left with a massive missed opportunity and In Deep shÓt, because as soon as the money hits DB and KTís bank accounts they will be gone forever.

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« Reply #29166 on: September 08, 2021, 12:57:55 pm »

or the bank account of NTFC Manwork

Whilst KT/DB are massive creditors of NTFC there is a big conflict of interest in terms of any profit share from a land deal.

Any potential windfall is lost and gone forever, all the way back to Florida & Dubai whilst Northampton loses big time AGAIN

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« Reply #29167 on: September 08, 2021, 13:02:45 pm »

Can I ask who people think which clubs are a fair comparison to use when analysing potential and performance ?

Peterborough, MK, Lincoln, Plymouth, Fleetwood, Accrington, Burton, Ipswich, Brentford, Wycombe, etc Huh?Huh?
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« Reply #29168 on: September 08, 2021, 13:37:05 pm »

Christ it's so boring now.

Rightly or wrongly I don't think I care enough either way. I just wanna watch football.
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« Reply #29169 on: September 08, 2021, 14:13:34 pm »

Can I ask who people think which clubs are a fair comparison to use when analysing potential and performance ?

Peterborough, MK, Lincoln, Plymouth, Fleetwood, Accrington, Burton, Ipswich, Brentford, Wycombe, etc Huh?Huh?

Potential, who knows?
No reason we couldn't do a 'Wycombe' on the pitch but for every one of them there is a non-league Luton or Oxford.
Would sadly never put us in the Ipswich bracket. MK and P*sh are difficult to compare. Support numbers wise, who knows. We hardly live in a footballing hotbed. Maybe we could replicate the Saints support with the right facilities.

Performance - in my 52 years we've always been sh*t with a couple of exceptions.

That 'potential' goes way, way, way beyond KT, DC and those who came before.
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All he had to do was build a stand.
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« Reply #29170 on: September 08, 2021, 14:28:56 pm »

Christ it's so boring now.

Rightly or wrongly I don't think I care enough either way. I just wanna watch football.

Why even read this thread then?

It's actually the opposite, now is where they MAY be an opportunity to secure a better future, where you can watch football without the worry of being dependant on one investor. What would happen is something happened to DB? As the 80% plus shareholder and sole investor ?
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« Reply #29171 on: September 08, 2021, 15:06:36 pm »

Why even read this thread then?

It's actually the opposite, now is where they MAY be an opportunity to secure a better future, where you can watch football without the worry of being dependant on one investor. What would happen is something happened to DB? As the 80% plus shareholder and sole investor ?

I wish someone would tell me what this opportunity is. I still havent seen it.
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« Reply #29172 on: September 08, 2021, 15:12:57 pm »

Random - no one doubts your passion on the subject and I also know you are a doer not just a talker but Iím interested in your ideal realistic outcome on the current situation bearing in mind of course every action has a consequence - and by realistic it has to be more than simply a wish.

My ideal outcome is as follows

1) KT and DB get their land deal
2) The council enforce certain binding conditions- West Stand completion and some other reasonable  NTFC infrastructure improvements- but still leave KT & DB with a healthy profit that enables them to write of the £7m club debt to them and walk away
3) The club is then left both solvent and with a better infrastructure for the future
4) On this basis the club might be more attractive to local business people  to form a board of directors and finance ongoing cost and further development
5) Create a bond initiative- with starting stakes low enough for individual supporters to invest but high enough to attract more well off investors without them holding too high a stake to gain overall control.

As you can see my thoughts require a degree of compromise with the current owners - the trust stance doesnít and like it or not the current owners currently have the ability to walk away, cut their losses and wind up the club - I think the trust are playing a very dangerous game.
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« Reply #29173 on: September 08, 2021, 15:15:17 pm »

Quote
So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?

I said the above two months ago.........
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« Reply #29174 on: September 08, 2021, 15:30:30 pm »

Why even read this thread then?

It's actually the opposite, now is where they MAY be an opportunity to secure a better future, where you can watch football without the worry of being dependant on one investor. What would happen is something happened to DB? As the 80% plus shareholder and sole investor ?

To check if there is any concrete news.

Stop pushing your opinion on me. I don't care either way. Mot an attack on the Trust. Calm down.
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« Reply #29175 on: September 08, 2021, 16:40:04 pm »

To check if there is any concrete news.

Stop pushing your opinion on me. I don't care either way. Mot an attack on the Trust. Calm down.

I am not pushing my opinion on you at all. so you really read this thread expecting some new and action from KT ? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

You were the stated your were bored by it all, which is fine by me, no problems mate
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« Reply #29176 on: September 08, 2021, 16:56:48 pm »

Hi CW, we actually agree  Grin Grin Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

The only thing i would change is no 1.  I feel their land deals does not benefit NTFC enough thats all.

No 2 - Do you mean they make £7m profit so they then walk away from the debt on the books? Bearing in mind they have already received £6.68m for the club so have just about made a profit already

Would you prefer a £3m poorly finished, basic East Stand or that £3m to be part of a bond, then raise more funds to give us better options for Sixfields

The problem the owners have is that WNC have to be seen to be doing the right by NTFC, (and Northampton) not the owners. Given KT's history with the council it is difficult to see them trusting him to do such a deal. The way out of this IMHO, is that the land deal and the ownership of NTFC is tied together. KT has made it clear he is here to make a profit and move on, so do a deal that CLEARLY benefits all parties, seeing KT retire off in the Florida sunset, if he wants. If he wants to stay in football then he would be able to. The alternative of no deal means he is stuck with a football club he  and deffo DB doesn't want. What will they do then?  wash their hands and walk away?  won't be good for their reputations !

So do the land deal which splits the profits 3 ways KT/NTFC/WNC and KT walks away a hero having handing the club to an investment based community setup.

If that meant the club started with £5m what could we achieve, like you say with your bond idea.





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« Reply #29177 on: September 08, 2021, 17:02:09 pm »

I wish someone would tell me what this opportunity is. I still havent seen it.

er, A land deal to create £m's, the space around Sixfields to create a better stadium, the largest town in the country (so potential fanbase) and the smallest stadium capacity of any long-established league club. 

Infrastructure is the base of EVERY successful club that wants medium term growth. Look at Rotherham - Championship now, wasn't that long ago they were homeless and bankrupt twice, and they have 2 larger Sheffield Clubs on their doorstep

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« Reply #29178 on: September 08, 2021, 17:38:33 pm »

er, A land deal to create £m's, the space around Sixfields to create a better stadium, the largest town in the country (so potential fanbase) and the smallest stadium capacity of any long-established league club. 

Infrastructure is the base of EVERY successful club that wants medium term growth. Look at Rotherham - Championship now, wasn't that long ago they were homeless and bankrupt twice, and they have 2 larger Sheffield Clubs on their doorstep


Sorry Random, sufficient finance is the base of every successful club that wants growth. Itís possible that a business plan that incorporates an expansion of infrastructure without adequately addressing the issue of finance may drive a club into oblivion. Be nice to see a plan that everyone is happy with that mitigates this risk? Iíve heard plenty of theory, but is anything tangible likely to materialise at any point in our future.
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« Reply #29179 on: September 08, 2021, 18:01:31 pm »

er, A land deal to create £m's, the space around Sixfields to create a better stadium, the largest town in the country (so potential fanbase) and the smallest stadium capacity of any long-established league club. 

Infrastructure is the base of EVERY successful club that wants medium term growth. Look at Rotherham - Championship now, wasn't that long ago they were homeless and bankrupt twice, and they have 2 larger Sheffield Clubs on their doorstep



Thats a wish,nothing wrong with that,but not an opportunity.
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