The Hotel End
March 28, 2024, 22:28:17 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Downloads Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register Chat  

Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

Pages: 1 ... 1459 1460 1461 1462 1463 1464 1465 [1466] 1467 1468 1469 1470 1471 1472 1473 ... 2181   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820898 times)
0 Members and 33 Guests are viewing this topic.
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6890


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29300 on: October 06, 2021, 15:03:29 pm »

Il throw my twopenneth in.
Why are people having a spat on here?
We are on the verge of having an elected fans rep on the board of the club and it is THEY who will prove to be important towards the future of the club and they who will be able to brief fans and keep everyone updated in real time.
The trust may want many things but will not matter one jot as they will be superseded by the elected fan representative ,to a position historically held by a trust board member.
That ship has sailed now.
The trust who historically did have a seat on the board won’t have.
The new incumbent will be impartial and reading up on both candidates they both look good to me.
Whoever wins will have the board seat that’s been vacated by the trust.
I find it interesting that no one from the trust stood and as far as I know didn’t bother telling their members that they would effectively be giving up their historic position on the board.
Given this situation it’s probably for the best that no one from the trust applied.

Hopefully the new board member will embrace the fan base in a way the trust never did towards the end of its tenure.
Report Spam   Logged
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6890


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29301 on: October 06, 2021, 15:18:28 pm »

I must take issue with you random over your statement that you say nothing that is incorrect.
You say KT has bought zero value to the club.
This is plain wrong.
He delivered the much heralded fans village by sticking the fans under the back of the north stand, putting a very expensive (imo) hamburger stall there and surrounding it with a few barriers that were left over from the stalled redevelopment.
The value of that to the match day experience was immeasurable although one could argue that Tony ansells boiled burgers thirty odd years ago would have seen revenues sky rocket adding yet more value.

Please get your facts right before saying our owners have bought zero value to the club.
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29302 on: October 06, 2021, 15:22:20 pm »

I assume that you have read my original post properly by now?
Any chance of an appropriate response, instead of your knee jerk reaction to what you thought that I had written?

Thanks Deepcut for the reminder, I have been travelling a lot recently.

The Trust communications are on their website and official social media accounts

Anything else is posted as personal views and not necessary that of the Trust and or its board.

Therefore my posts are mine. And I am far more impatient, frustrated and aggressive regarding the situation hence the tone of my posts. The Trust board as a whole, for various reasons, are running out of patience with KT but there are different voices and opinions.

The refusal of KT to answer the 25 questions (he requested) and offering another public control zoom call was not appropriate in the circumstances. The Trust got a lot of flack and made out to be the ones who were being stubborn and uncooperative. Remember KT is the master of spin, has a team of PR and media people, plus 'controls' on the local media. The Trust board are 9-11 people, all who have days jobs, volunteering, so I believe are due some slack. It really annoys me that some on here, hold the Trust up to the highest levels of scrutiny and expectations but never to the owners, who are ultimately responsible for the mess we are in.

Please consider that perhaps the Trust or it's supporters needed to be more vocal and aggressive to get noticed, to show that all is not well and to put pressure on KT to do more.

You could say it has had some effect, since the presentation, how many times had the club put our PR re being local, community, local fee, the appointment of Kingsthorpe associate Director, the supporters rep etc. Now they may be window dressing and many will see through them as cynical but perhaps KT is listening, although they are all free. I would be more impressed if they fixed the windows and improved the catering or opened a tin of paint.

The TRust need to show supporters they care, they are human, they want to help, and they are prepared to listen and learn. (BECAUSE THEY DO) They want ideas, volunteers, help etc etc. I want to see far better, regular, modern communication such as podcasts, video interviews, zoom meetings and even question time style events etc. This is being discussed now, again anyone interested please let me know, we really want and need more help.

I understand people have different views and they are all valid but ultimately is about those who lead and who wants to follow.

You set-up / run this forum, which is great (most of the time), and I thank you for all your time and effort. You do what you think is best for the majority, but you can't please everyone, all of the time. It will be the same for the Trust and the new supporters rep. You have to take a view you are doing it for the right reasons. It is impossible to represent the exact feelings of every single supporter on every subject.

Football is changing, supporters are becoming more and more involved, football is not like any other business, it is / should be a community asset.

I hope that at least answers some of your concerns  Smiley
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29303 on: October 06, 2021, 15:24:55 pm »

I must take issue with you random over your statement that you say nothing that is incorrect.
You say KT has bought zero value to the club.
This is plain wrong.
He delivered the much heralded fans village by sticking the fans under the back of the north stand, putting a very expensive (imo) hamburger stall there and surrounding it with a few barriers that were left over from the stalled redevelopment.
The value of that to the match day experience was immeasurable although one could argue that Tony ansells boiled burgers thirty odd years ago would have seen revenues sky rocket adding yet more value.

Please get your facts right before saying our owners have bought zero value to the club.

You nearly had me there  Grin

Yeah funny how the burgers are the most expensive yet the barriers the cheapest you can find
Report Spam   Logged
singcobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3162



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Level 6 Avatar Linux User
« Reply #29304 on: October 06, 2021, 15:27:14 pm »

THEY WOULD EMPLOY PEOPLE, EXACTLY THE SAME AS KT DOES

AND WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? YES THE CLUB HAS INCOME, BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH SO WHERE WOULD THE TRUST GET SEVEN MILLION FROM? OH I FORGOT THE LONG QUEUE OF LOCAL BUSINESS MEN WHO ARE WILLING TO SPUNK AWAY A SHÍTLOAD OF MONEY.
Report Spam   Logged
singcobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3162



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Level 6 Avatar Linux User
« Reply #29305 on: October 06, 2021, 15:29:11 pm »

Singcobb, just to clarify, you do know that the club has an income of approx £6m per year from sources outside of the owners?

RE Covid, its a bit of a secret but most small clubs were fine, they used furlough and they were issued money from the FA and Football league, etc. No club has even gone close to going under since Covid (ok Derby but that's a different issue)

Woody, what are the credentials of KT and DB?  If you want to talk staff, well as Carton said, you employee people

The board would consist of a mix of people who were very experienced in a variety of ways, all having NTFC's best interests at heart, not their own.   That is an improvement to what we have now for a start

And it is obviously not enough otherwise we wouldn't be in debt to DB would we?
Report Spam   Logged
GrangeParkCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9415


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Level 6
« Reply #29306 on: October 06, 2021, 15:35:29 pm »

And it is obviously not enough otherwise we wouldn't be in debt to DB would we?

Or has it been enough and it is just the direction the club has taken that has resulted in the debt? Is the payroll too big? Are we employing too many staff? Have the marketing department being pulling their weight?
There are a lot of variables......

To simply say that "it hasn't been enough" seemingly totally misses the point!
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/7, 2007/8, 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2018/19
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5108


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
5000 Posts Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #29307 on: October 06, 2021, 15:39:15 pm »

Or has it been enough and it is just the direction the club has taken that has resulted in the debt? Is the payroll too big? Are we employing too many staff? Have the marketing department being pulling their weight?
There are a lot of variables......

To simply say that "it hasn't been enough" seemingly totally misses the point!

We don't look like a club living beyond our means..
Report Spam   Logged
KeithB
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29308 on: October 06, 2021, 15:44:08 pm »

Il throw my twopenneth in.
Why are people having a spat on here?
We are on the verge of having an elected fans rep on the board of the club and it is THEY who will prove to be important towards the future of the club and they who will be able to brief fans and keep everyone updated in real time.
The trust may want many things but will not matter one jot as they will be superseded by the elected fan representative ,to a position historically held by a trust board member.
That ship has sailed now.
The trust who historically did have a seat on the board won’t have.
The new incumbent will be impartial and reading up on both candidates they both look good to me.
Whoever wins will have the board seat that’s been vacated by the trust.
I find it interesting that no one from the trust stood and as far as I know didn’t bother telling their members that they would effectively be giving up their historic position on the board.
Given this situation it’s probably for the best that no one from the trust applied.

Hopefully the new board member will embrace the fan base in a way the trust never did towards the end of its tenure.

Hi Shoemaker,

The Trust didn't vacate a board seat, it was part of the new owners' stipulations that supporters should not be involved.  They were prepared to walk away from the takeover if the council insisted on fan representation.  There is no "historic position" to "give up" - it was removed by DB and KT during takeover negotiations.

Now from that anti-supporter position (you perhaps don't like research, but I suggest you look into their relationship with Oxford supporters when they owned that club) we have seen an extremely sudden and massive turnaround.  The initiative happened very suddenly, was very vaguely described on the Cobblers Show and in the in-house video put out by the club, and KT couldn't provide any detail about what the role might encompass.  For someone who said they'd been thinking about it for a while, there weren't many thoughts!

What do you think has led to this simply indescribable reversal in attitude from the owners?  It couldn't possibly have been the Trust, could it?

The Trust made it clear very early on through a statement that whilst it considered this a welcome move it would not put forward an official candidate for the role because Kelvin Thomas had said the fan representative should be independent.  Andy and Derek from the board were on the Cobblers Show last week explaining this too.  So yes, the Trust has communicated this - several times - to everyone, not just members.

Regardless of my cynicism, I do think this is potentially a step in the right direction.  KT has previously stated that board meetings don't happen at the Cobblers because everything is done over the phone.  With JW and a fan rep there they will presumably have to hold meetings, which may well be a good thing.  So perhaps something right will happen even though in my opinion it has been done for the wrong reasons.

The supporter rep will have a tough job.  The trust has over 700 members, a website, a dedicated email address, 12+ dedicated volunteers who all know a lot of other supporters, go to pretty much every match, sit in the stands and talk to people, a constitution, a clear mission, a 30 year history which involves being the first of its kind and close involvement in saving NTFC - twice!  And it still attracts a load of criticism from people saying it's not representative etc.  It may be a lonely job at times if the supporter rep expresses any kind of opinion, ever!

There is and always will be a really important place for the Trust, regardless of people who choose to forget (or perhaps never to know) their history - and that place is not in this role on the NTFC board at this time.

Report Spam   Logged
GrangeParkCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9415


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Level 6
« Reply #29309 on: October 06, 2021, 15:44:49 pm »

We don't look like a club living beyond our means..

Too true!!
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/7, 2007/8, 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2018/19
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6890


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29310 on: October 06, 2021, 15:50:54 pm »

Hi Shoemaker,

The Trust didn't vacate a board seat, it was part of the new owners' stipulations that supporters should not be involved.  They were prepared to walk away from the takeover if the council insisted on fan representation.  There is no "historic position" to "give up" - it was removed by DB and KT during takeover negotiations.

Now from that anti-supporter position (you perhaps don't like research, but I suggest you look into their relationship with Oxford supporters when they owned that club) we have seen an extremely sudden and massive turnaround.  The initiative happened very suddenly, was very vaguely described on the Cobblers Show and in the in-house video put out by the club, and KT couldn't provide any detail about what the role might encompass.  For someone who said they'd been thinking about it for a while, there weren't many thoughts!

What do you think has led to this simply indescribable reversal in attitude from the owners?  It couldn't possibly have been the Trust, could it?

The Trust made it clear very early on through a statement that whilst it considered this a welcome move it would not put forward an official candidate for the role because Kelvin Thomas had said the fan representative should be independent.  Andy and Derek from the board were on the Cobblers Show last week explaining this too.  So yes, the Trust has communicated this - several times - to everyone, not just members.

Regardless of my cynicism, I do think this is potentially a step in the right direction.  KT has previously stated that board meetings don't happen at the Cobblers because everything is done over the phone.  With JW and a fan rep there they will presumably have to hold meetings, which may well be a good thing.  So perhaps something right will happen even though in my opinion it has been done for the wrong reasons.

The supporter rep will have a tough job.  The trust has over 700 members, a website, a dedicated email address, 12+ dedicated volunteers who all know a lot of other supporters, go to pretty much every match, sit in the stands and talk to people, a constitution, a clear mission, a 30 year history which involves being the first of its kind and close involvement in saving NTFC - twice!  And it still attracts a load of criticism from people saying it's not representative etc.  It may be a lonely job at times if the supporter rep expresses any kind of opinion, ever!

There is and always will be a really important place for the Trust, regardless of people who choose to forget (or perhaps never to know) their history - and that place is not in this role on the NTFC board at this time.


I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that
Report Spam   Logged
Shoemaker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6890


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Combination Topic Starter Poll Voter
« Reply #29311 on: October 06, 2021, 15:53:10 pm »

That should have read Cardoza
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29312 on: October 06, 2021, 15:59:00 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra £20 per month = £40k per month = £480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc



Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29313 on: October 06, 2021, 16:03:37 pm »

I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.



Well with the benefit of hindsight, all the board wish they had stood their ground and KT/DB did not take over.
However KT came in making a big play that they had £4m ringfenced to invest in club

How would that have played out if the Trust said, no we scuppered the deal cos they wouldn't let us in the boardroom?

Come on Shoey, stop take the mick, you are confusing people
Now deny that
Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1819


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Third year Anniversary Level 5 Apple User
« Reply #29314 on: October 06, 2021, 16:18:07 pm »

AND WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? YES THE CLUB HAS INCOME, BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH SO WHERE WOULD THE TRUST GET SEVEN MILLION FROM? OH I FORGOT THE LONG QUEUE OF LOCAL BUSINESS MEN WHO ARE WILLING TO SPUNK AWAY A SHÍTLOAD OF MONEY.
Because a business loses £1M per year doesn't mean it always has to lose £1M per year. Just a thought, would the owners try to run a "tighter ship" if they didn't have the back up of the land value ? There seems to be no consequence to losing money if know you will get it back from the land deal.
          NTFC can be run on a break even, it did under DC a couple of times, and we had players on more money than they are on now. We get much better gates than over half the other League 2 clubs but they survive on much less income than us, so what's wrong with NTFC ?
Report Spam   Logged
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5883


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Combination
« Reply #29315 on: October 06, 2021, 16:22:49 pm »

GPC You forgot to mention the 5 (FIVE) managers that have been sacked and paid off, never mind the merry-go-round of their players and support staff they all want and need.

There's an element of luck in appointing managers and KT & DB have undoubtedly been unlucky. All I'll say is I was pleased with 4 of the appointments at the time they were made, the exception being Curle who is the orly one to get us promoted! I also agreed with all the sackings when they were made. Didn't you?

Compare that to say Plymouth 2 and Accrington 1. and many many other clubs who have far less than 5.

The other thing we have no idea on is, are there any management / consultancy fees from Florida, Dubai or Off-shore?  We have no idea but as Hammy says, we don't look like we are over spending does it.
Now you are just making stuff up that we might be able to get cross about. This sort of thing does you no favours in winning people over.

There are clubs that make a profit in the lower leagues or losses are small.  

If we had 2000 fans contributing an extra £20 per month = £40k per month = £480k per year, that is a fair amount to more than cover general running losses. That is without factoring in business donations and sponsorship etc

I for one wouldn't do this. I don't think many others would either.



Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
KeithB
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29316 on: October 06, 2021, 16:29:44 pm »

I’m sorry I only bothered reading the first couple of lines and that was enough.
The trust did give up their seat on the board
They decided to give it up when KT asked them too and have regretted it ever since

You can’t rewrite history.
They had a seat on the board under David Cardozo and KT made it part of his takeover that the trust were excluded from the board.
They had a choice
They could have said we do not agree to that request or yes we agree to that request.
They chose the latter option.
They DID relinquish their seat on the board.

Now deny that

Not being bothered to read more than a couple of lines explains all of the errors in the post I replied to.

Yes, you are technically correct.  Happy now?

I had assumed you were interested in the health of the football club, not point scoring over a situation in which the club may have ceased to exist.  A situation which was in part facilitated by people making excuses a terrible chairman and rubbishing the Trust and others who were raising concerns. 

I'll stop now, it's probably past your attention span already.
Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29317 on: October 06, 2021, 16:59:16 pm »



Think about this for a minute or two please.

4 managers that you wanted as manager ALL failed and you wanted them sacked. What does that tell you?  Is it them that failed or something wrong at NTFC?

So called decent appointments on paper, all fail here, quote quickly to such an extend that you want them gone, no time, no medium term plan.

Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29318 on: October 06, 2021, 17:03:25 pm »

Re: Fees from overseas

No I am not making it up, I would expect to see something, don't tell me the owners / KT are not taking money out on a regular basis.

I know KT received over £1m for his sale of shares to the Chinese but who is paying his flights etc

KT says he doesn't take a salary but there are many ways to skin a cat

Do you know how much the Cardozas charged 1st Land for consultant / finder fees on the East stand development? 


Report Spam   Logged
guest168
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29319 on: October 06, 2021, 17:07:41 pm »

So BOTN, you would not pay a little extra to support your football club?

How about buying more merchandise or more drink, food etc at the ground?

£20 per month? really? How about £10 then?

What is I said that money went directly to training facilities or a massive modern supporters lounge or safe standing or increased capacity for the away to generate more money for the club?

Would you think about it then?
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1459 1460 1461 1462 1463 1464 1465 [1466] 1467 1468 1469 1470 1471 1472 1473 ... 2181   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy