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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820212 times)
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Manwork04
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« Reply #30400 on: December 02, 2021, 11:56:46 am »

All of which tells me if you just have 4 million to spend, live with the carbuncle and put 2000 seats on both the North and South  - a moderately successful period on the pitch would give significantly more revenue than the East stand.
But you don’t have the hospitality or potential non match day revenue then Peter.
I posted a very long time ago how PNE funded one of their stands, the report was from Deloitte, it’s imperative that a club has 7 day a week income if it’s to move forward.
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« Reply #30401 on: December 02, 2021, 11:57:46 am »

As I said in my previous post, our losses average out at £1.1M per year since KT & DB took over. Has anyone thought why we lose that amount of money, I've heard the "Well that's football for you" but rather than just come out with stuff like that, shouldn't we be having a look for the reasons for these losses ? We are one of the "bigger fishes" in League 2 with an average gate of over 5,100, not a lot of rent to pay and get the profits from the off field activities.
   In 2020 we had a turnover of £5.37M, staffing costs of £3.96M and lost £570K, it's generally considered that our playing staff wage bill is in the region of £1.5M, so where does the other £2.4M go last year? In 2019 we turned over £4.8M and lost £1,6M !!!!
   Compare this to Newport County, who average 3,700 through the gate, their turnover for 2020 was £3.65M  and the made a profit of £307K, in 2019 they turned over £4.8M with a profit of £967K
   So either Newport are running a super efficient operation, if so why don't we ask them how they do it, or we are being poorly managed and have been for the last 6 years, which is it ?
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« Reply #30402 on: December 02, 2021, 12:22:26 pm »

Thomas is threatening to walk away and call in the debt if he doesn’t get his way, the clue as to where the Chinese money went is in the statement where he says the Trust will be on the wrong side of history if the deal doesn’t go through and that David and himself won’t be financially affected.


A lot hinges on this possibility (as opposed to the alleged threat itself).

As I understand it, calling in the debt would represent nothing more than an act of vindictiveness. There are likely zero viable avenues to actually recovering even a slim portion of it. What's more, if DB/KT chose to deliberately send the club under, they'd be rock-bottom of the creditors list. I suspect their ability to act as directors in future would also be in the balance (this is true of many of the allegations made on here, by the way).

So, it all comes back to the same, boring point. There is a whole heap of conjecture chucked around on here that the everyposter is just expected to believe, without challenge. For my part, if someone could actually convince me that their suppositions and accusations were accurate, I'd be right on board.

I can't shake the nervousness that maybe some of you are right, but that the prospect of saying 'told you so' is quietly more attractive than bolstering the cause whilst it still matters by actually backing up what you say.

Edit: re the 'we'll be alright' comment from KT, I took this to mean they wouldn't be financially worse off than they are now, as opposed to they will have broken even on the whole endeavour. I know, that must mean I'm his b*tch.
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« Reply #30403 on: December 02, 2021, 12:22:54 pm »

I'm struggling to see where "the new dawn" is, we get a Stand finished as cheaply as possible, hemmed in by warehouses and an organisation that loses £1M + per year. I'm saying "as cheaply as possible" based on everything else at Sixfields in the last 6 years. Who is going to buy that ?
       Someone is going to need a long barge pole for that !
    
I really don't understand this issue with being 'hemmed in by warehouses'. What would you rather see the land sold for? A lot of stadia are surrounded by industry
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« Reply #30404 on: December 02, 2021, 12:27:31 pm »

Of course it realistic, I very much doubt it’s been costed, KT said it cost about £1000 per seat, which is correct for a modern stadium, so for a 4000 seat stand it would be circa £4m. Now where have I heard that number before?

Can someone lend this guy a fag packet   Grin Grin

How can you possibly say something is realistic if it hasn't been costed.

As I said elsewhere I'd back this option if someone tells me how it's going to be funded and profit the club long term and can support that argument with actual figures.
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« Reply #30405 on: December 02, 2021, 12:28:28 pm »

A lot hinges on this possibility (as opposed to the alleged threat itself).

As I understand it, calling in the debt would represent nothing more than an act of vindictiveness. There are likely zero viable avenues to actually recovering even a slim portion of it. What's more, if DB/KT chose to deliberately send the club under, they'd be rock-bottom of the creditors list. I suspect their ability to act as directors in future would also be in the balance (this is true of many of the allegations made on here, by the way).

So, it all comes back to the same, boring point. There is a whole heap of conjecture chucked around on here that the everyposter is just expected to believe, without challenge. For my part, if someone could actually convince me that their suppositions and accusations were accurate, I'd be right on board.

I can't shake the nervousness that maybe some of you are right, but that the prospect of saying 'told you so' is quietly more attractive than bolstering the cause whilst it still matters by actually backing up what you say.
Conjecture is the correct word. There is an element of truth is almost everything that is discussed on here, but then people make up scenarios, get angry about the scenarios and then get angry at other people who dont agree with their scenarios and we go round and round in circles.

Unfortunately that gets in the way of the legitimate discussion, such as making sure the plans are completed to a high standard and the ACV is respected (although as I mentioned previously that's only valid if the owners want to see the covered land).
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« Reply #30406 on: December 02, 2021, 12:29:14 pm »

As I said in my previous post, our losses average out at £1.1M per year since KT & DB took over. Has anyone thought why we lose that amount of money, I've heard the "Well that's football for you" but rather than just come out with stuff like that, shouldn't we be having a look for the reasons for these losses ? We are one of the "bigger fishes" in League 2 with an average gate of over 5,100, not a lot of rent to pay and get the profits from the off field activities.
   In 2020 we had a turnover of £5.37M, staffing costs of £3.96M and lost £570K, it's generally considered that our playing staff wage bill is in the region of £1.5M, so where does the other £2.4M go last year? In 2019 we turned over £4.8M and lost £1,6M !!!!
   Compare this to Newport County, who average 3,700 through the gate, their turnover for 2020 was £3.65M  and the made a profit of £307K, in 2019 they turned over £4.8M with a profit of £967K
   So either Newport are running a super efficient operation, if so why don't we ask them how they do it, or we are being poorly managed and have been for the last 6 years, which is it ?

Cup run.
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« Reply #30407 on: December 02, 2021, 12:30:54 pm »

Of course it realistic, I very much doubt it’s been costed, KT said it cost about £1000 per seat, which is correct for a modern stadium, so for a 4000 seat stand it would be circa £4m. Now where have I heard that number before?
To over simplify this then.... we have a binary choice. We have £4m. We can increase the capacity by 4,000 or keep the capacity roughly the same but add 10 corporate boxes etc.

I'll go first... I vote corporate boxes etc
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« Reply #30408 on: December 02, 2021, 12:32:26 pm »

I really don't understand this issue with being 'hemmed in by warehouses'. What would you rather see the land sold for? A lot of stadia are surrounded by industry

It's a phrase people use to portray a negative image in your mind.

I see we are now "hemmed in by Five Guys".
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« Reply #30409 on: December 02, 2021, 12:37:27 pm »

I really don't understand this issue with being 'hemmed in by warehouses'. What would you rather see the land sold for? A lot of stadia are surrounded by industry
The problem with warehouses is that once you've sold the land they are there are not going to move. Surely the half of the running track that has been remediated could be used for something better, have NTFC considered that we build some all weather 5 a side pitches, we can train on them in bad weather and rent them out 24/7 otherwise. They obviously make money otherwise virtually every non league club wouldn't have had them installed, we have the land and that would be a money stream for years to come
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« Reply #30410 on: December 02, 2021, 12:39:37 pm »

Labour and the Libs don’t believe the “independent “ report on the land valuation and require a fully validated red book one.
Note the caveat at the start of the valuation letter.

So for clarity can you point me to where Labour and Lib Dems said they don't believe the report.  I also note the quotes around independent. Where has anyone said it is not independent?  I may have missed something that you have read.

My understanding is the report is deemed not of sufficient level/detail for the process hence why the requirement for the red book version.

  

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« Reply #30411 on: December 02, 2021, 12:43:44 pm »

It's a phrase people use to portray a negative image in your mind.

I see we are now "hemmed in by Five Guys".
You're not very good at distances are you ? look at Google Earth, half way across the athletics track is less than half the distance to Five Guys and in case you haven't realised Five Guys  isn't a warehouse, some of which can be 30Mts high.
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« Reply #30412 on: December 02, 2021, 12:53:56 pm »

But you don’t have the hospitality or potential non match day revenue then Peter.
I posted a very long time ago how PNE funded one of their stands, the report was from Deloitte, it’s imperative that a club has 7 day a week income if it’s to move forward.

Agreed - the PNE plan looked very good - my point is the actual plan for the East stand is rubbish in terms of both additional seating and to your point non match day revenue - therefore if I just had the 4 million to spend I would increase capacity elsewhere - many have projected a successful well marketed L1 club with good visitor attendance could easily add 1-2k on the current capacity - that's 500k pa extra on a gate of 8500 which for short term together with the extra 2000 compared with our current average brings in another million so return looks pretty good for a further phase of development/revenue generation. I don't think we should lose sight of the fact it's Cardoza who we should blame for the carbuncle in the east - that is the fraudulent structure that really doesn't give any major option on revenue producing development
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« Reply #30413 on: December 02, 2021, 12:57:25 pm »

A lot hinges on this possibility (as opposed to the alleged threat itself).

As I understand it, calling in the debt would represent nothing more than an act of vindictiveness. There are likely zero viable avenues to actually recovering even a slim portion of it. What's more, if DB/KT chose to deliberately send the club under, they'd be rock-bottom of the creditors list. I suspect their ability to act as directors in future would also be in the balance (this is true of many of the allegations made on here, by the way).

So, it all comes back to the same, boring point. There is a whole heap of conjecture chucked around on here that the everyposter is just expected to believe, without challenge. For my part, if someone could actually convince me that their suppositions and accusations were accurate, I'd be right on board.

I can't shake the nervousness that maybe some of you are right, but that the prospect of saying 'told you so' is quietly more attractive than bolstering the cause whilst it still matters by actually backing up what you say.

Edit: re the 'we'll be alright' comment from KT, I took this to mean they wouldn't be financially worse off than they are now, as opposed to they will have broken even on the whole endeavour. I know, that must mean I'm his b*tch.

Whilst I believe that premise to be largely true it also holds that KT will not simply walk away as some posters seem to believe he will if planning permission is delayed or refused. The club owes very little to outside creditors so any financial restructuring would remain firmly under the control of KT. He would,with very little imagination, retain the rights to the stadium and the surronding land He wouldnt need to liquidate the club but merely close it thereby retaining control over the assets for years to come. A deal needs to done in some shape or form.
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« Reply #30414 on: December 02, 2021, 13:03:04 pm »

Your not very good at distances are you ? look at Google Earth, half way across the athletics track is less than half the distance to Five Guys and in case you haven't realised Five Guys  isn't a warehouse, some of which can be 30Mts high.

Please tell me you didn't just spend 5 mins on Google Earth working that out  Grin Grin

Hemmed in means that something is prevented from moving or changing due to being surrounded by obstacles.  So technically the South Stand is hemmed in by Walter Tull Way, the North by a bloody big hill and the West by a football pitch.  
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« Reply #30415 on: December 02, 2021, 14:01:27 pm »

Please tell me you didn't just spend 5 mins on Google Earth working that out  Grin Grin

Hemmed in means that something is prevented from moving or changing due to being surrounded by obstacles.  So technically the South Stand is hemmed in by Walter Tull Way, the North by a bloody big hill and the West by a football pitch.  
🤣🤣.
I'm sorry McHammer but this has to be one of the most unintentionally inaccurate and funniest posts ever.
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« Reply #30416 on: December 02, 2021, 14:06:57 pm »

🤣🤣.
I'm sorry McHammer but this has to be one of the most unintentionally inaccurate and funniest posts ever.


Not forgetting that the whole blooming lot is hemmed in by the sky?
 Grin
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« Reply #30417 on: December 02, 2021, 14:50:28 pm »

🤣🤣.
I'm sorry McHammer but this has to be one of the most unintentionally inaccurate and funniest posts ever.


Glad you got the humour....I sense you may have missed the intended irony.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #30418 on: December 02, 2021, 15:00:45 pm »

When you've had a tough day, this thread is guaranteed to provide some light relief. Let's be honest no one has an absolute scooby how the land lies, excuse the pun.

Best to concentrate on promotion.....gotta love the chips from Five Guys though.
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« Reply #30419 on: December 02, 2021, 15:25:34 pm »

A week ago you wanted a doubling of 2% of the 300,000 to 4% of the 300,000.
Do you have a random bullcrud generating machine at home?


Yes he does
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