Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

[guest168]

London Cobbler has just said pretty much exactly what I was going to write (I even have the URL to the verylittlehelps forum waiting to go on my clipboard  )

NTFC is a business, it just happens to be a business where its customers have a strong emotional connection to its product.

It isn't alone in that respect; television providers, security systems, technology platforms and pretty much any car manufacturer you can think of will all have their own forums (independent or otherwise) where their customers will converse, argue and mess about in exactly the way we do on here. Not one of them has a right to know how much the chairman of their chosen company of interest paid or didn't pay for a chunk of shares in said business.

Just like we don't.

HI BOTN,

Sorry but for me I don't agree. (although i agree that other businesses have fans too)

The football club is far more linked to the community, indeed the name is based upon the place it is located. How many people change the team they support?  Do you really (morally) have a choose to suddenly support MK Dons?  basically you are a customer for life - and won't spend any money at a rival company. You can't say that about virtually any other business. Also there is only one business, in one location (football) whereas other businesses have locations all over the place.

Would you be anywhere near as bothered if another company you 'supported' closed down as you would if NTFC folded?

That is why Germany have the 50+1, and voices are getting louder regarding fan ownership.

[guest49]

why they had no Ready Salted Walkers crisps.

TBF to Tesco's there is clearly a national supply chain issue on crisps. On my online shop Sainsbury's also have no ready salted crisps of any description but I did get some potato sticks....subject to substitutions.
Covid has a lot to answer for....

[guest49]

The football club is far more linked to the community, indeed the name is based upon the place it is located. How many people change the team they support?  Do you really (morally) have a choose to suddenly support MK Dons?  basically you are a customer for life - and won't spend any money at a rival company. You can't say that about virtually any other business.

Probably anyone over 60 with a BT phone line. Stubborn old gits 

[guest168]

I'd be careful how you word things if I was in your shoes.
You're alluding to KT as carrying out similar activities that remain under investigation... Albeit pretty clear the outcome is likely to result in a conviction.

you need to be careful as you might be pre-justice the outcome

What I am saying re KT is history is repeating itself in the way the club is being run,

1. Hiring and firing of managers and their staff
2. No medium term transfer policy
3. Pennies put into the upkeep of the ground (the seats for the East stand were already there waiting to be installed btw)
4. Total focus and desperation to get development done by way of a "gift" from our local council
5. No imagination into extra facilities - just a "just fit for purpose" - basic East stand, with no extra seats
6. Little real investment into the matchday experience
7. The catering offering for example is still awful and expensive
8. The questionable financial events connected to NTFC
9. Club shop still franchised out
10.No modernisation of the ground - sorry think you can pay by card machine now
11.same staff structure and personnel
12.£6-7m debt to the owners with no / little increase in asset / balance sheet valuation
13 Talk of the East stand being the saviour for the club but only after the council effectively give the owner the funds to do it
14 Threats that if the development or loan (DC) doesn't happen the club would be in very serious position
15 Yo-yo of promotion & relegation L1 & L2
16 No long term plan for the football club
17 Owners looking to get their badly spend debt back ASAP (KT has said that they will pay their debt back first from land profits although after the East stand is done)
18 Both have paymasters who I expect are demanding some return on their in investment - afterall it was mainly DC father and David Bower's money not DC or KT

Where KT is different from DC

1. He is very willing to talk to all fans at all times
2. He smiles and is very friendly - especially to those who like him  


Re the illegal stuff, if you follow the events of the Chinese money, none of it makes any sense on a business level, so a natural conclusion is that something doesn't add up. Thinking, believing and proving something is very different -

[guest168]

TBF to Tesco's there is clearly a national supply chain issue on crisps. On my online shop Sainsbury's also have no ready salted crisps of any description but I did get some potato sticks....subject to substitutions.
Covid has a lot to answer for....

Almost as important as our shortage of a top goal scorer 

[guest3338]

Go for it.  Nothing stopping anyone from asking the question.

I can offer a better solution, I think, bearing in mind a few of the supporters asking have questioned Tom's independence and would probably struggle to believe any answer if it doesn't align with their own.

There is an independent supporters body called the NTFC Supporters Trust.  They've already asked these questions directly of KT, over a year ago in fact....that was after someone potentially the legal advisor Random mentions had finished hawking the evidence round the press.

So they know the answers and have had written correspondence and face to face meetings with the owner regarding these exact matters.

They didn't tell anyone they had done this till it became public through other sources and have never shared what the answers were despite being asked several times.  In fact they had so many concerns regarding what KT had done and said they buried the hatchet with him and backed the development deal you see on the table today.

Surely that would be the ideal starting point for anyone who wants to know the answers to some of the questions being raised about this matter especially if you value the independence of the Trust and understand they ask these questions on the supporters/members behalf.

No there isn't you're quite right, but then KT has at his own insistence just installed a fans representative to the board of directors who in turn claims to have stood to represent us.
My point was, if enough fans want to know the answer to any particular question then it should be asked of KT by Tom. Whether or not Tom gets an answer to any question is of course entirely KTs prerogative.
I realise KT is at liberty to answer questions from those individuals he deems important enough or is on sufficiently good terms to want to reply to, but do you really think he is going to want to address random questions from the great unwashed such as you or I?
Other than representing the fans officially at board level and acting as a liason officer, what else has that position been created for?

[Manwork04]

No there isn't you're quite right, but then KT has at his own insistence just installed a fans representative to the board of directors who in turn claims to have stood to represent us.
My point was, if enough fans want to know the answer to any particular question then it should be asked of KT by Tom. Whether or not Tom gets an answer to any question is of course entirely KTs prerogative.
I realise KT is at liberty to answer questions from those individuals he deems important enough or is on sufficiently good terms to want to reply to, but do you really think he is going to want to address random questions from the great unwashed such as you or I?
Other than representing the fans officially at board level and acting as a liason officer, what else has that position been created for?

It’s a Trojan Horse for our owners to claim to have the fans on board.

[MCHammer]

No there isn't you're quite right, but then KT has at his own insistence just installed a fans representative to the board of directors who in turn claims to have stood to represent us.
My point was, if enough fans want to know the answer to any particular question then it should be asked of KT by Tom. Whether or not Tom gets an answer to any question is of course entirely KTs prerogative.
I realise KT is at liberty to answer questions from those individuals he deems important enough or is on sufficiently good terms to want to reply to, but do you really think he is going to want to address random questions from the great unwashed such as you or I?
Other than representing the fans officially at board level and acting as a liason officer, what else has that position been created for?

You suggested people should ask Tom....I replied "Go for it nothing stopping anyone from asking the question".  I also offered a potentially better alternative for those who question Tom's independence or trust in any answer he might supply.

You seem to be debating something I never said about asking KT directly though that's also an option that many have taken in the past.

The Trust Board did exactly that.  Surely someone with your curious nature would be interested in what they were told and why they refuse to share that with us over a year later.  Great thing is some of it is written correspondence so you can have even more faith that you are not being given a "version" of what was said.

[Manwork04]

You suggested people should ask Tom....I replied "Go for it nothing stopping anyone from asking the question".  I also offered a potentially better alternative for those who question Tom's independence or trust in any answer he might supply.

You seem to be debating something I never said about asking KT directly though that's also an option that many have taken in the past.

The Trust Board did exactly that.  Surely someone with your curious nature would be interested in what they were told and why they refuse to share that with us over a year later.  Great thing is some of it is written correspondence so you can have even more faith that you are not being given a "version" of what was said.

I detect you might have a chip on your shoulder about the Trust, why don’t you give yourself some therapy and address your issues with them, otherwise you might start to come across on here as a bit of a joke.
Tom is exactly the right person to ask this question.

[guest3338]

You suggested people should ask Tom....I replied "Go for it nothing stopping anyone from asking the question".  I also offered a potentially better alternative for those who question Tom's independence or trust in any answer he might supply.

You seem to be debating something I never said about asking KT directly though that's also an option that many have taken in the past.

The Trust Board did exactly that.  Surely someone with your curious nature would be interested in what they were told and why they refuse to share that with us over a year later.  Great thing is some of it is written correspondence so you can have even more faith that you are not being given a "version" of what was said.

To add to Manworks reply above .
No I'm afraid I didn't.
When he (Mano) suggested that Tom should ask the question i agreed, adding that if enough of the supporters he now represents are curious enough (to paraphrase you), he should absolutely engage with KT on their behalf because its his position to do so.
I have nothing against Tom, he will be judged by all as he carries out his role. He doesn't need a job description, his remit couldn't be clearer. In representing us there is no mutual exclusivity with any engagement the Trust have previously had with KT. If they decide to sit on information they have been provided for the long term interest of the club that doesn't mean the same questions shouldn't be put to KT by club supporters via Tom.
The Trust is an autonomous body with the best interests of the club at its core. Tom on the other hand, in KT's eyes at least, represents us as fans. There is a difference.

[MCHammer]

I detect you might have a chip on your shoulder about the Trust, why don’t you give yourself some therapy and address your issues with them, otherwise you might start to come across on here as a bit of a joke.
Tom is exactly the right person to ask this question.

 

Don't be offended but I think you are probably the last person on here to give anyone advice about having a chip on the shoulder.   

The funny thing is I'd have thought you of all people would be backing me 100%.

If everything that you claim about our owners is true then surely by challenging the Trust to provide evidence, release the explanations they were given and detail what happened if/when they reported any of this to the relevant authorities that that would only support and strengthen the case.  If the Trust choose to be selective then the reverse happens.  Why would that be the wrong thing to ask of them?

[Manwork04]

Don't be offended but I think you are probably the last person on here to give anyone advice about having a chip on the shoulder.   

The funny thing is I'd have thought you of all people would be backing me 100%.

If everything that you claim about our owners is true then surely by challenging the Trust to provide evidence, release the explanations they were given and detail what happened if/when they reported any of this to the relevant authorities that that would only support and strengthen the case.  If the Trust choose to be selective then the reverse happens.  Why would that be the wrong thing to ask of them?

I have said in an earlier post that I would like to hear what KT has said to the Trust and actually I’m in complete agreement about the Trust should be transparent about their conversations with the club where possible.
We now have our own representation on the board in the form of Tom Cliffe, so irrespective of what the Trust have and haven’t said let’s get Tom to pop the $64m question to KT about whether he did or didn’t retain the monies from the sale of the club to 5U Sport when the shareholding was brought back under KT and DBS control.

[guest2608]

You really think NTFC is just like any other business like Tescos?

Can you send me the link for their forum that you post regularly on. I would like to read your thoughts on how they display their frozen food, or the price difference for club card holders or why they had no Ready Salted Walkers crisps.

I guess Tesco don't have a supporters trust trying to prevent them opening up a new store that'll be hemmed in by a car park 😆

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I have said in an earlier post that I would like to hear what KT has said to the Trust and actually I’m in complete agreement about the Trust should be transparent about their conversations with the club where possible.
We now have our own representation on the board in the form of Tom Cliffe, so irrespective of what the Trust have and haven’t said let’s get Tom to pop the $64m question to KT about whether he did or didn’t retain the monies from the sale of the club to 5U Sport when the shareholding was brought back under KT and DBS control.

Go for it Manny...

[MCHammer]

I have said in an earlier post that I would like to hear what KT has said to the Trust and actually I’m in complete agreement about the Trust should be transparent about their conversations with the club where possible.
We now have our own representation on the board in the form of Tom Cliffe, so irrespective of what the Trust have and haven’t said let’s get Tom to pop the $64m question to KT about whether he did or didn’t retain the monies from the sale of the club to 5U Sport when the shareholding was brought back under KT and DBS control.

Nice one glad we agree.

Keep us all informed on how you get on.

cliffetom@hotmail.com
ntfctrust1992@gmail.com

[singcobb]

Don't be offended but I think you are probably the last person on here to give anyone advice about having a chip on the shoulder.  

The funny thing is I'd have thought you of all people would be backing me 100%.

If everything that you claim about our owners is true then surely by challenging the Trust to provide evidence, release the explanations they were given and detail what happened if/when they reported any of this to the relevant authorities that that would only support and strengthen the case.  If the Trust choose to be selective then the reverse happens.  Why would that be the wrong thing to ask of them?

This is why I have no confidence in the trust whatsoever. If they were the true voice of the fans then they should also be the ears and diseminate all information recieved on a public platform, rather than holding cards to their chests and trying to be smug and shouting they know something you don't from the other side of the playground.

[singcobb]

That is why Germany have the 50+1, and voices are getting louder regarding fan ownership.

50+1 will never happen in the UK. Too much apathy.
Also for example. I own the Cobblers, I am told it has to go to 50+1. I say OK, but I value my 90% of the shares at 116million quid, so go for it buy me out.

[guest3086]

50+1 will never happen in the UK. Too much apathy.
Also for example. I own the Cobblers, I am told it has to go to 50+1. I say OK, but I value my 90% of the shares at 116million quid, so go for it buy me out.

The value of a club is not decided by the owner.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

The value of a club is not decided by the owner.

Why?

[tcobb]

I hate the idea of 50+1, please never let it happen.